this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2023
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[–] [email protected] 203 points 1 year ago (20 children)

Cameras connected to the public internet are such a bad idea.

[–] [email protected] 62 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wait, isn't every camera public? - NSA

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Pretty much, yes. - Shodan user

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Agreed! -CCP

Wyze cameras phone home to China unfortunately.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There used to be a website with a map and you could see all these open unsecured cameras they'd found around the world. Mostly by searching Google for the page name they all had.

Some of them seemed intentional, like traffic cams, cameras on the roof looking out over the city, etc, but there were so many fat men sat around watching TV in their underpants, random families in the kitchen, and so on.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Funny that the website shedding light on insecure cameras is, itself, insecurely serving the public over http.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

It would be fine if the footage was end-to-end encrypted, meaning you need to transfer the encryption/decryption keys from device (e.g. a phone) to camera, and then manually between all devices that should have access to the decrypted footage.

Camera would only ever send out encrypted footage, and thus it would be insufficient to have access to the cloud account if you want to view the footage - you would need both access to the account (to obtain the encrypted data) and the decryption key (to actually decrypt it). The decryption key must never reach any 3rd party servers and can only be manually transferred between devices that should have access.

There are still possible attack vectors, like malicious firmware updates, or the viewer client app updates, but those are very difficult to exploit, and pretty much exist in most "secure" software today (including from companies like Google, Apple, Meta, etc.). They could be mitigated by hardware design (do the encryption in hardware, camera's software never has access to decrypted footage) and open source viewer clients that the user controls, but I would consider a camera sufficiently secure (for non-sensitive locations) without those.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It is a bad idea. On one hand, we have the mean to make them quite secure. There is no such thing as an unbreakable encryption, but with proper key management and using decent enough algorithms we can totally do something that puts your camera out of reach of most thing that are not nation-scale organisations. On the other hand, it's mildly more inconvenient than "installing an app and entering your email", as it might require stuff like doing a tiny little bit of setting up.

So, the unsecure/"trust the service" way it is.

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[–] [email protected] 106 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you weren't getting rid of Wyze devices before the Wyzecam v1 fiasco where they lied, this is a great time to do so. Unplug your Wyze stuff and hit 'em right in the metrics

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oooh what was he v1 fiasco?

[–] [email protected] 72 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Stop using cloud-connected cameras!!!!

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (5 children)

But How can I see stuff remotely?

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Best way would be to set up a VPN that lets you connect to your home network remotely, and set up cameras that are only connected to your LAN

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I believe these types of cameras are used often by the average person. I don't believe the average person would know how to set up a VPN

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago
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[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Again????? This is the third time and of course the last two times they promised they'd rearchitect so it could never happen.

The fact that this can happen means that they or anyone can see your camera data at any time. There is zero real security or privacy.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is why I’ll only use outside cameras. Almost no cameras are safe.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (6 children)

That's why I only use inside cameras, eg dumb cameras where I can ensure that they are only accessible inside my LAN.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Can you recommend some reputable brands?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Literally any dumb webcam and a Raspberry Pi or similar will do. I used a webcam and an old laptop. But I never put up full time surveillance. Just spontaneously when I needed something.

Heard Ubiquiti was good.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Im happy with my ubiquiti cameras. They are pricy but solid.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (3 children)

These fucking cameras and all like them are the bane of my existence. I'm an ISP repair rep. People lose their fucking shit if they can't surveil their fucking house for 5 minutes. "The Internet is down! Reboot it!" "Are you at home too troubleshoot?" "No! But I can't see my fucking cat vomiting on my couch from work!!!" Jesus fucking Christ, your house will be there when you get home. Fuck

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

This is my father. We have about 10 ring cameras surrounding the house and I fucking hate it. Meanwhile, I'm also a distributor for security cameras and could easily replace all of them for free. He still insists no. He likes that he can easily prey on me when I go outside for 1-2 seconds to grab a drink or go outside for a smoke.

I already hate feeling watched but the need for audio is just ridiculous. Law enforcement can basically just intercept the feeds and listen/watch you anytime they want to. The FBI abused a spy tool 280,000 times this year, so I doubt they'll respect your rights, if you even have any at this point.

I wish I grew up during the days without cameras being on every single building.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you're incapable of building a secure service, maybe you shouldn't be routing people's camera feeds through that service.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Your Wyze webcam might have let other owners peek into your house

IF you happened to be logged into Wyze's horrible web viewer during the 30 min things got screwy. Didn't this happen to amazon a couple years ago? I remember briefly getting someone else's cart/purchase history.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

That was Steam

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago

you never know this could be helpful for 4chan

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

As a child, I remember it was trivial to use Google to see through surveillance webcams that people from around the world had purchased and left unsecured and public on the internet. I hadn't thought much of it then, including how obviously invasive of their privacy it was, but I think it has left me with an awareness of just how little these systems should be trusted to protect that privacy. I have no trust in the system to protect my data from anyone.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Those are still around. They are the local services that people suggest instead of Nest or something, where “you control your own data”. Turns out nothing is foolproof.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

You can still do this if you use https://www.shodan.io/

It’ll let you find IoT devices and cameras connected to the internet if you know what to search for and an alarming amount of them are locked behind an admin/admin login.

I advise against nosying around because there’s a near 100% chance that it’s illegal to do so in your jurisdiction.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

They don't own the ones they paid for either, someone else is in control..

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

This is why I'd never use a hosted service for interior cameras, only exterior ones.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Jokes on them, ours died a few months after their ~expiration date~ one year warranty.

Next ones are going to be plain dumb RTMP cameras over PoE cat6 feeding a local server.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I see you tried to make strike through text. You're missing one more pair of the... damn, can't remember what it's called. The home symbol.

~~strikethrough~~ ~~strikethrough~~

Edit: Tilde

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