this post was submitted on 24 Feb 2024
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https://seattle.eater.com/2024/2/21/24079162/tony-delivers-seattle-delivery-app-fees-downtown

Tony Illes was working as an Uber Eats delivery person when an ordinance passed last year by the Seattle City Council came into effect in mid-January. The new rule required app companies to pay workers like Illes a minimum wage based on the miles they travel and the minutes they spend on the job. The apps say that this amounts to around $26 an hour, and both Uber Eats and DoorDash responded by adding $5 fees to every order (even when the customer is outside Seattle city limits) while calling for the law to be repealed. According to a recent DoorDash blog post, the ordinance has resulted in an “unprecedented drop in order volume,” a drop that Illes felt personally. He told Geekwire that “demand is dead” and told local TV station KIRO 7, “I didn’t get an order for like six hours and I was done.”

So Illes had an idea: Who needs these apps, anyway? He printed up signs with QR codes directing people to a bare-bones website with his phone number, promising that he would deliver food by bike in Uptown, South Lake Union, Belltown, and a chunk of the downtown core for $5 a pop from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. and 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. daily. All you had to do was order the food and send him the screenshot. He called himself “Tony Delivers.”

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[–] [email protected] 190 points 8 months ago (2 children)

This is splendid. 100% fuck DoorDash and UberEats.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Ordered some sushi and cold stone the other day.

Same parking lot.

The dasher picks up my ice cream, does another dash then goes and waits 20 minutes for my sushi for some reason then does another dash.

I was delivered a bag of melted ice cream and the container it was in.

Door dash offered me a refund that was less than the tip and said “they solved my problem” and then I cancelled my dash pass and they can go fuck themselves.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago

No offence but why the fuck would you get ice cream delivered?

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[–] [email protected] 148 points 8 months ago (6 children)

There should be more local cooperative delivery services. Small scale, profit sharing.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I agree, the delivery services are definitely price gouging to a degree. It sucks that we're charged for delivery, service fees AND the item prices are inflated by around 20% too. Thing is, I think there's a bunch of reasons that TonyDelivers will eventually become as bad as the current market leaders. As his company grows, takes on employees, builds infrastructure, overheads increase, management grows - they'll fall into the same "traps"/profit seeking the other delivery companies have fallen into.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 8 months ago

Plus he's got to find a load more guys called Tony.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

They don't have to. Plenty of small businesses stay good and small.

The problem is the ones that spread like cancer.

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[–] [email protected] 135 points 8 months ago (2 children)

According to a recent DoorDash blog post, the ordinance has resulted in an “unprecedented drop in order volume,”

No, you disingenuous stink sacks. Your $5 "you made an order in or around Seattle" fee did that. Orders would've continued unchanged if you hadn't raised fees.

[–] [email protected] 71 points 8 months ago (1 children)

But that would have cut into their enormous share of the profits. What kind of monster are you?

[–] [email protected] 32 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yeah if investors can't make cartoonish returns for doing literally nothing what's even the point of gouging customers??

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[–] [email protected] 116 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Damn, $5 sounds too cheap. I can't imagine ride to store, pick up at store during busy times and ride to the delivery to be less than 20m. That's barely minimum wage. Prob better off at $8 or $10. Still undercut rideshare rates. Then drop only if there's competition.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 8 months ago (7 children)

Then also he has to get around. Either he pays for transport, or he has to keep his bike/scooter/whatever in shape.

[–] [email protected] 67 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, he's biking, assuming he's doing maintenance himself you get a LOT of miles out of a bike for very little upkeep. If he were driving it would be a losing proposition from the start.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Hi, I'm someone who works on bicycles for a living!

Basic maintenance such as

-checking tires for wear and cracks, keeping the bike dry and rinsing with clean water if it gets road salt on it,

-keeping the chain and sprockets lubed and cleaning them of debris if it gets caked on,

-cleaning the bearing races of debris and keeping them lubed (maybe go to a shop for this one if you aren't sure about it)

-and just generally not doing stupid things with it

and you will have a bike that lasts a lifetime.

Maybe less if it's a cheap brand like Schwinn or mongoose. But those steps drastically improve the life of any bicycle.

Worth noting: my main bicycle is a GT hybrid from 2014. It's not much of a step above baseline (at the time, GT fell off in quality) but spending a little time doing some online "research" into the parts on the bike will go a long way. You'd be surprised what both cheap AND expensive brands put on their frames. Cheap brands using mid-tier gear (instead of cheapest) , and top brands using the cheapest tourney derailleur you can find in a clearance bin...

I kind of got off topic a bit but yeah.

BASIC PREVENTATIVE BICYCLE MAINTENANCE WILL KEEP CYCLING CHEAP AF

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago

For a decade i didn't own a car and biked everywhere. It really is dirt cheap compared to other methods of transportation.

And yeah more off topic but checking your chain for wear and replacing it becomes the most important/frequent replacement item. A worn chain wears out the rest of the drivetrain more quickly-- it is much cheaper to stay on top of replacing the chain than have to replace your cassette and chainrings sooner than normal.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 8 months ago

He's undoubtedly counting on tips.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago

He might do like 2-5 deliveries per trip if they align.

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[–] [email protected] 103 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Paid holiday, paid sickness, pension, occupational accident insurance.

Things that employees at UberEats, DoorDash and Tony Delivers don't get, but that Tony should be getting.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 8 months ago (2 children)

If you're self-employed, you have to factor that into your tariff yourself. Let's hope Tony's savvy enough and can get by with such a low price.

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[–] [email protected] 74 points 8 months ago (6 children)

I stopped using food delivery apps last year. The prices were just absurd. If I want takeout, I go get it myself. This all started when I tipped a dasher and the service was awful. The guy stopped somewhere with my food for 15 mins and then delivered it cold and was rude when I asked why he stopped at a location for 15 mins. Tips are for good service, not shitty late-delivered, cold, food!

Last night, I looked on Grubhub for a restaurant, figured out what I wanted and the total was $34 (not including tip). I called the restaurant and went and got it myself, $25. That's a 36% upcharge for the app alone! Not including any tip!

[–] [email protected] 42 points 8 months ago (3 children)

I can honestly say I've never used one. I looked at the prices, realised they were all jacked up before the delivery fees were added, and then just got it myself.

My local Chinese takeaway employs their own guy. I really don't know why we had to farm this problem out to silicon valley shysters.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago

Yeah me neither.

Slower. More expensive. Exploitative.

Nah.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago (2 children)

World: decent wage

USSA: tip, tip, tip, tip

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago

Same. Last straw for me was when I got a pizza that was transported vertically, so it had folded over and the toppings were everywhere. I bought a pizza bag and a rear carrier for my bike and just go get my food every time now.

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[–] [email protected] 73 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (9 children)

I know IRS or similar entities wouldn't like, but would it be possible to establish a peer to peer service.

No fees for restorants, all extra money to dashers, and clients wouldn't be screwed by service fees.

Honestly looks like a cool project I could look into, but what would be the legality of such services.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

I've been dreaming of a future where Uber, DoorDash, etc are devoid of any corporate organization. Developers, drivers and support staff are the only human workers, the rest is organized by a complex, but open source, program.

No investors, no shareholders, every cent goes to the workers. Wages are higher in prices are lower because we aren't paying five VPs a million dollars a year or sending all our profits to the shareholders.

I think advances in computing and AI could actually make this possible. If only greed didn't run the world it might be doable

I want free market capitalism that works for us. What we have now if slavery with extra steps

[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago

Federated DoorDash?

I'm in.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (2 children)

The funny thing is that sounds a lot like communism, despite being a capitalistic free market service. Corporate communism if you will

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I mean, so long as he's reporting his income. Plenty of cash businesses operate within the IRS's good graces. Hell, you can even report your income from selling drugs. The IRS just wants their cut.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Why not a worker's cooperative? Plusses include no executives earning insane salaries or stockholders to please.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Didn't Uber start as a ride sharing app? As in, "Hey we're both headed in the same direction! I'll give you a ride in my vehicle, stranger, if you pitch in for gas." Then they realized with a few tweaks they could turn their pool of near-slave labor into profit. Enshittification accelerates.

Maybe there's a Fediverse-like solution for gig work that doesn't suck all the humanity out of it?

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[–] [email protected] 56 points 8 months ago

I bet he makes more money as he isnt getting fucked up the ass by a deliver company

[–] [email protected] 32 points 8 months ago (6 children)

A girl did something like this in brazil but with nudes. She got really popular after she posted videos on tik tok and got sued by the government for advertising porn and then got even more popular.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 8 months ago (2 children)

That's disgusting! There's so many though ... Which one!? Which Brazilian eGirl did this and where can we find her?

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 8 months ago (3 children)

The good side of a free market

[–] [email protected] 28 points 8 months ago (11 children)

This is a good side? Because Tony most likely can't afford health insurance and probably isn't going to be able to save much for retirement.

This sounds like the desperate side of the non-corporate people involved in the so-called free market to me.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago

Until his profile gets high enough that they find some permit he doesn't have and he gets shut down.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago (7 children)

That's how it was ideally supposed to work, if humans wouldn't be trainable to follow brands and ads.

Sadly they are, so I dunno. Maybe abolishing trademarks and outlawing unrequested ads would work.

After all, it is illegal to do to a person what they haven't requested, right? It is illegal to take a thing from your house without your permission. It should be illegal to put it in there also, it's the same thing mirrored. That would include unrequested ads.

Then we'll see how many people really want to see ads.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago (9 children)
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[–] [email protected] 20 points 8 months ago (2 children)

The problem is that he'll get overwhelmed very easily and will either need to be selective about what he takes, or you'll end up waiting forever. Either way, the experience will be too inconsistent.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Co-op delivery company in the works?!

Great on Tony, doing the damn thing!

https://fitsmallbusiness.com/what-is-a-cooperative-co-op/

A cooperative, or co-op, is an organization owned and controlled by the people who use the products or services the business produces. Cooperatives differ from other forms of businesses because they operate more for the benefit of members, rather than to earn profits for investors.

Co-ops are organized to provide competition, improve bargaining power, reduce costs, expand new and existing market opportunities, improve product or service quality, and obtain unavailable products or services (products or services that profit-driven companies don’t offer because they see them as unprofitable).

Cooperatives present lots of opportunities for small business owners and aspiring entrepreneurs. In this post, I’ll go over how cooperatives work, why you should form one, and how you can start one for your business.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (5 children)

These delivery services are prime candidates for cooperatisation... which after a quick search using quotes to filter out "corporatisation" it turns out is a word that serious people use.

Anyway, the reason for this is that they are minimal services - all you need is an app and the ability to get that app on people's phones - and almost no investment in infrastructure.

It would be so easy - conceptually, I know software is hard - to replace that app with a cooperative based model, and you could leverage open source to make a general platform that could be adjusted to individual coops' needs, and allowing a customer to use a single contact point for any affiliated services. Each coop then wouldn't meed to develop their own app, it would be ready made for them.

It could also use federation to link up groups for discovery and to weed out scummy groups.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Tony should make a business of helping people set this sort of thing up for themselves!

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You mean like with multi-level marketing?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago

Tony's a gem.

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