this post was submitted on 05 Jan 2025
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Privacy

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I have never liked Apple and lately even less. F.... US monopolies

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[–] [email protected] 193 points 3 days ago (12 children)

Where's the "Apple is the only tech giant that respects your privacy" crowd? Just because your data isn't being publicly auctioned doesn't mean they aren't harvesting it and infringing on your privacy.

[–] [email protected] 67 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I switched to iPhone from Android because I was tired of Google making changes to their security and APIs that were killing my macros I'd write for my phone. I was also tired of Google sending everything good to the graveyard. Finally, I hated that Google would promise features or support for x number of years and then pull the rug out from under me (although, lack of support was usually caused by the manufacturer)

Before spending $1000 on my iPhone, I told my wife that it was a good investment because of Apple's proven history of supporting devices with 5 years of updates; so we agreed that I'd keep this iPhone as my daily driver for 5 years because of the exuberant cost.

Well, my wish came true and here we are. I've got a phone that doesn't respect my privacy, doesn't respect my settings, has a frustrating UI/UX, and has low compatibility with most of my existing infrastructure. I gotta admit, though, my experience is far more consistent now, but not in a good way.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 2 days ago (6 children)

I cannot imagine spending $1000 on a phone in general. And even more so, I cannot imagine spending $1000 on a phone I cannot even sideload something like Newpipe on.

Since you are seemingly wealthy enough for this - maybe Pixel with GrapheneOS would be a right fit for you? Pixels also have longer support now (although I still think it's very short, so I'd likely have to switch to Lineage afterwards).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

Wealthy? Look at flagship phone sales numbers every year. Broke ass people have expensive gadgets all the time. Get a life.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I have used both iOS and Android for more than a decade. After every update on both systems I have to go through and delete/disable junk I don't need/privacy issues.

The stock android pixel UI has gotten so full shit I have to use a launcher.

iOS's UI is terrible to use with everything taking twice as long as it should. So many illogical hidden commands.

Everything has gotten randomly harder to get basic things done.

My win 10 business computer with classic shell will stop being supported the end of the year... Oh joy....

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago (3 children)

While I'm still struggling to find an appropriate replacement for my photo editing apps, I'm happy to report that support and usability for most popular Linux distros have improved to the point that I now find Linux not only more stable, but easier to navigate than Win 10 was even at its best.

The amount of noise associated with Windows, generally due to people answering questions about the wrong version of windows or the wrong application, searching for any help topics is like trying to run through mud. It's literally quicker now to learn a totally new skill on Linux than to try to update your knowledge base on Windows.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I don't believe that Win10 will die, due to the huge amount of users and companies. I think that it will be the same a with Win7, which survived several years it's announced end. There are still users which can't even update to Win11 with a relative new computer (without tricks), not because the lack of sources, but because it's specs don't appear in the list made by M$ of supported specs, as in my case with a 3 years old Laptop, because my AMD Radeon 9425 don't appears in this idiotic list, offering to buy a new PC to use Win11 🤬💩

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

The stock android pixel UI has gotten so full shit I have to use a launcher.

What? I use a stock Pixel Pro and there's no fluff. It's very vanilla, but does everything I need it to do without fuss. I was using Nova Launcher Pro, but they sold it to an advertising company a while ago, so I went back to the stock launcher.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I am typing this on a pixel 8

Try disabling and removing the Google search bar. Can't be done. Since Google search has gone down hill I never use it.

How about removing the the news feeds? You have to disable the Google app to get rid of it. If I want to read the news, I do a quick search. It's not hard to do. I don't need a news feed on my phone.

What about the stupid at a glance at the top of the home screen? It just takes up space for no benefit over the notification bar. It can't be fully removed.

I also never us any voice assistant etc because it's faster to type it in than repeat myself.

I currently have 19 apps on this phone disabled that I can't uninstall.... No fluff huh...

All of my apps are organized into folders and I am never more than one swipe and two taps away from opening the app I want. I don't scroll, I don't search, I know where everything is and have it opening in under a second.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It's a pixel, you're in c/Privacy for whatever reason, have you considered just putting GrapheneOS on it? All those annoyances go bye bye, you can have a full fat google alternate user and an approximately private main user...

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I honestly would love to. Unfortunately my banking and accounting apps for my business won't run on it.

Also the reason I have an iPad for two apps that are not on Android that I have to have for business.

M business laptop is W10 instead of Linux mint like my personal one for the same reason..

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Fair cop. Keep a weather eye out for better alternatives for the blockers, but as noted the full fat gOS play store and google services are pretty good, and the bootloader gets re-locked, might be worth trying it for a weekend to see how close you get, many people have good experiences, but it's all down to cases.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

That's true about the search bar. I do actually use that to find and open apps though, so I hadn't considered it fluff. I don't use Google to search the web though. I forgot about the news feed because I don't have it. I uninstalled the news app and a bunch of other crap I don't need. Idk what At A Glance feature you're talking about. I don't think I have that. Overall you are right. There's some initial fluff that I forgot about because I removed it years ago.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I tried the new iPhone 16 Pro. They should be ashamed of what they've created. If that's their flagship phone, then I can't even imagine how glitchy their base models are. It felt like a Fisher Price OS compared to Android. I returned it after two weeks. My several year old Pixel Pro can do more stuff more reliably than Apple's brand new flagship device.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I have the 14 pro and my sister recently got the 16 base model. I don't know why, but the pictures from her newer phone looked like a major leap backwards in quality. Also, the latest OS does feel like its features were written in crayon and that its waiting to kick off its training wheels. I can't fully describe it: it's not clunky or clumsy, it just feels like something is missing from the experience. I've never really felt this way from a phone version upgrade before.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

There's that, but it was really glitchy too. Siri only worked half the time. The subtitles would start and then stop after a couple sentences and need to be restarted constantly. There were a never ending stream of glitches. Text selection is still awful. It's just not a good phone compared to the competition. I will say that it looked and felt nice though. The build quality of the actual hardware seemed good.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Between this and Tim Cook's generous personal donation to the Trump inauguration, those folks seem strangely silent.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Apple is always silent, because they know they have no justification for their bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

No one thinks Apple, or any other ecosystem for that matter, is completely private. It's just far more private than Android. Primarily because Apple is not an advertising company.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 days ago

Lemmy isn't promoted by Apple

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

It's not data harvesting if it works as claimed. The data is sent encrypted and not decrypted by the remote system performing the analysis.

From the link:

Put simply: You take a photo; your Mac or iThing locally outlines what it thinks is a landmark or place of interest in the snap; it homomorphically encrypts a representation of that portion of the image in a way that can be analyzed without being decrypted; it sends the encrypted data to a remote server to do that analysis, so that the landmark can be identified from a big database of places; and it receives the suggested location again in encrypted form that it alone can decipher.

If it all works as claimed, and there are no side-channels or other leaks, Apple can't see what's in your photos, neither the image data nor the looked-up label.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (8 children)

It’s not data harvesting if it works as claimed. The data is sent encrypted and not decrypted by the remote system performing the analysis.

What if I don't want Apple looking at my photos in any way, shape or form?'

I don't want Apple exflitrating my photos.
I don't want Apple planting their robotic minion on my device to process my photos.
I don't want my OS doing stuff I didn't tell it to do. Apple has no business analyzing any of my data.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I don’t want Apple exflitrating my photos.

Well they don't. I don't want to justify the opt-in by default but, again (cf my reply history) here they are precisely trying NOT to send anything usable to their own server. They are sending data that can't be used by anything else but your phone. That's the entire point of homomorphic encryption, even the server they are sent to do NOT see it as the original data. They can only do some kind of computations to it and they can't "revert" back to the original.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If they don't look at my data, they don't even have to encrypt it.
If they don't try to look at my data, they don't need to wonder whether they should ask my permission.

I don't want Apple or anybody else looking at my data, for any reason, is my point.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I agree on permission.

Yet I'll still try to clarify the technical aspect because I find that genuinely interesting and actually positive. The point of homomorphic encryption is that they are NOT looking at your data. They are not encrypting data to decrypt them. An analogy would be that :

  • we are a dozen of friends around a table,
  • we each have 5 cards hidden from others,
  • we photocopy 1 card in secret
  • we shred the copied card, remove half of it, put it in a cup and write a random long number on that cup
  • we place that cup in a covered bowl
  • one of us randomly picked gets to pick a cup, count how many red shards are in it, write it back in the cup and writes adds the number to the total written on the bowl, we repeat that process until all cups are written on only once
  • once that's done we each pick back our up without showing it to the others

Thanks to that process we know both something about our card (the number of red shards) and all other cards (total number of red shards on the bowl) without having actually revealed what our card is. We have done so without sharing our data (the uncut original card) and it's not possible to know its content, even if somebody were to take all cups.

So... that's roughly how homomorphic encryption works. It's honestly fascinating and important IMHO, the same way that cryptography and its foundation, e.g. one way functions or computational complexity more broadly, are basically the basis for privacy online today.

You don't have to agree with how Apple implemented but I'd argue understanding how it works and when it can be used is important.

Let me know if it makes sense, it's the first time I tried to make an analogy for it.

PS: if someone working on HE has a better analogy or spot incorrect parts, please do share.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

It makes sense, but you totally miss my point. To go with your analogy, my point is:

  • I'm not interested in playing cards

That's it.

I don't care how fascinating the technology is and how clever Apple are: they are not welcome to implement it on my device. I didn't invite them to setup a card game and I expect them not to break into my house to setup a table.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

they are not welcome to implement it on my device

I wish, sadly that's not how using non open source or open hardware devices work. You are running their software on their hardware with their limitations. It's not a PC or SBC.

Edit: if we were to stick to the card game analogy, it'd be more like playing the card game in a hotel, in a room that you rented, rather than at home.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You are running their software on their hardware with their limitations

It's funny how it feels like my money when I pay for the device at the cash register.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

And it should, unfortunately it's not. Maybe right to repair and other laws will, hopefully, change that but for now, it's bundling, part pairing and locks all the way down.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

sdklf;gjkl;dsgjkl;dsgjkl;dsgsjkl;g

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

TLDR edit: I'm supporting the above comment - ie. i do not support apple's actions in this case.


It's definitely good for people to learn a bit about homomorphic computing, and let's give some credit to apple for investing in this area of technology.

That said:

  1. Encryption in the majority of cases doesn't actually buy absolute privacy or security, it buys time - see NIST's criteria of ≥30 years for AES. It will almost certainly be crackable either by weakening or other advances.. How many people are truly able to give genuine informed consent in that context?

  2. Encrypting something doesn't always work out as planned, see example:

"DON'T WORRY BRO, ITS TOTALLY SAFE, IT'S ENCRYPTED!!"

Source

Yes Apple is surely capable enough to avoid simple, documented, mistakes such as above, but it's also quite likely some mistake will be made. And we note, apple are also extremely likely capable of engineering leaks and concealing it or making it appear accidental (or even if truly accidental, leveraging it later on).

Whether they'd take the risk, whether their (un)official internal policy would support or reject that is ofc for the realm of speculation.

That they'd have the technical capability to do so isn't at all unlikely. Same goes for a capable entity with access to apple infrastructure.

  1. The fact they've chosen to act questionably regarding user's ability to meaningfully consent, or even consent at all(!), suggests there may be some issues with assuming good faith on their part.
[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

How hard is it to grasp that I don't want Apple doing anything in my cellphone I didn't explicitely consent to?

I don't care what technology they develop, or whether they're capable of applying it correctly: the point is, I don't want it on my phone in the first place, anymore than I want them to setup camp in my living room to take notes on what I'm doing in my house.

My phone, my property, and Apple - or anybody else - is not welcome on my property.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Sorry for my poor phrasing, perhaps re-read my post? i'm entirely supporting your argument. Perhaps your main point aligns most with my #3? It could be argued they've already begun from a position of probable bad faith by taking this data from users in the first place.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

Oh yeah I kinda missed your last point. Sorry 🙂

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 days ago

It’s not data harvesting if it works as claimed.

Narrator: It doesn't.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (9 children)

Wait, what?

So you take a pic, it's analysed, the analysis is encrypted, encrypted data is sent to a server that can deconstruct encrypted data to match known elements in a database, and return a result, encrypted, back to you?

Doesn't this sort of bypass the whole point of encryption in the first place?

Edit: Wow! Thanks everyone for the responses. I've found a new rabbit hole to explore!

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 days ago

Doesn't this sort of bypass the whole point of encryption in the first place?

No, homomorphic encryption allows a 3rd party to perform operations on encrypted data without decrypting it. The resulting answer is in encrypted form and can only be decrypted by whoever has the key.

Extremely oversimplified example:

Say you have a service that converts dollar amounts to euros using the latest exchange rate. You send the amount in dollars, it multiplies by the exchange rate and then returns the euro amount.

Now, let’s assume the clients of this service do not want to disclose the amounts they are converting. What they could do is pick a large random number and multiply the amount by this number. The conversion service multiplies this by the exchange rate and returns the ridiculously large number back. Then you divide thet number by the random number you picked and you have converted dollars to euros without the service ever knowing the actual amount.

Of course the reality is much more complicated than that but the idea is the same: you can perform operations on data in its encrypted form and now know what the data is nor the decrypted result of the operation.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 days ago (5 children)

So homomorphic encryption means the server can compute on the data without actually knowing what's in it. It's counter-intuitive but better not think about it as encryption/decryption/encryption precisely because the data is NOT decrypted on the server. It's sent there, computed on, then a result is sent back.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Wait, it's called homomorphic encryption? All we'd have to do is tell MAGAs that Tim Apple just started using homomorphic encryption with all the iphones and the homophobic backlash would cause Apple to walk this back within a week.

I'm only half joking.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I heard that they were the first test-audience Apple used to test their new product, the IRope. Apple designed it to go around their user's necks. The other end of the IRope is designed to attach to a proprietary cryptographic dongle to work called the Lynch-Key. Apple says it's like a lynch-pin because it's critical to the function the IRope.

Apple never did hear back from the test-audience. -I think this product will be a real winner!

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