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Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
Probably the branch off one.
Though, speaking of time travel, I really don't understand/like the whole Harry Potter dementor (however it's spelt) lake scene in the movie where future Harry saves past Harry. How does that work? Wouldn't in an initial timeline Harry have to somehow save himself before he could travel back in time to save his past self? The way I see it, it just looks like an infinite cycle of Harry saving his past self with no origin point.
That’s called the bootstrap paradox if you want to look that up.
I don't need anymore subscriptions, thank you.
From a narrative sense the "nexus" theory is certainly the most amusing, which is probably why Terry Pratchett posited it works exactly that way on numerous occasions. It turns out that history really is kings and battles and speeches and dates, and in order for history to have actually happened someone has to observe those critical events. The things in between really don't matter. History as a whole further finds a way of happening whether people are involved in it or not, and regardless of -- or possibly despite -- anyone attempting to hinder, help, or change it. The key events will always happen eventually. All anyone can do is slightly influence how long it takes for them to do so, which is why there are so many boring spans in history where it seemed like nothing really happened; That's because it didn't. Possibly until some history monk noticed, and came along to pull out whatever spanner was holding up the works.
You’ve already taken said actions but just didn’t know about it so nothing changes
12 Monkeys did this one perfectly.
You can't change things because if you undid the thing, then there wouldn't be a reason to undo the thing. If you go back in time, you are just going to do what you already did because that is in the past.
I'd totally forgotten about 12 monkeys. I had that VHS of this when I was 11 or 12 years old, I probably watched it 30 times and I never fully understood it. 25 years later I think it's time for me to rewatch this
I really like the nothing is changeable and travel is possible and anything you do while traveling has already happened / was already going to happen concept
I wouldn't say I "like" the idea, since it's one of the most doomed ways for a universe to be, but Greg Egan's Arrows of Time is a good exploration of this idea.
Time travel does exist, but you can only go forward. You just need to approach the speed of light relative to a frame of reference, and you will travel a shorter time span compared to it.
Its a one way trip. You can never go back to the original universe.
This is my biggest issue with multiverse time travel in popular culture. Somehow they always travel back and forth between 2 of Infinite timelines
Holy existential horror, Batman! By time traveling, you've just caused an entire universe full of new alternate-timeline versions of people to pop into existence. What happened to the timeline you left? It must still exist. You couldn't have been the only consciousness that was experiencing it. To think otherwise is some extreme solipsism. Gosh, did some other time traveler create the timeline you left by entering it? For that matter, are you actually a duplicate, having just popped into existence with the memory of having time-traveled, but the timeline was created by another time traveler?
Alternatively, perhaps it's another timeline out of an infinite number of possibilities that all co-exist? Yikes! That means there's an infinity of each person across the multiverse. Therefore, you could just murder everybody within reach, and time travel back before your started the rampage. The lives in a particular timeline don't matter, there are an infinity more. I think Rick & Morty did an episode with that premise.
Whichever one is objectively correct based on empirical evidence.
Fun fact: time travel does exist, and I am myself a time traveler. The fact that I'm travelling at one second per second along with everyone else is just a minor detail.
Imagine if someone just naturally traveled through time at like... 1.0005 seconds per second... What would that look like? Would we be able to tell? Would they be able to tell? Would their perception be different?
This is a Relativity thing, isn't it? Like the astronaut twins sort of...
That's exactly like being a bit closer to the bottom of a steep gravity well.
Yes, we could tell if they took a precise clock with them. In fact, we have to account for an even smaller discrepancy in order for GPS to work: we here stuck further down in Earth's gravity well travel through time and extra ten milliseconds or so per year vs. an orbiting satellite.
I have always been a fan of stable time loops so I guess option 2 is the best one for me.
One trope I'd like to see more of is loops which are not stable themselves, but are stable as a group. Eg a 2-loop has loop A in which someone goes back in time and changes history leading to a new timeline loop B. Someone in loop B later goes back in time and changes history in a way that turns the timeline back into loop A.
My headcanon is that your option 3 is basically an n-loop that we only see the first few loops of.
I like the one where the motion of the universe is not accounted for, so the travelers drop into empty space. But someone figures out how to use that to travel through space.
Time Wars are fun though. Each prime timeline moving others toward them.
My belief is if you went to the past your actions would fully effect the future, no branches or anything else of course this will create paradoxes but if your a time traveller you will still exist even if you prevent your birth, if then you go back to the future there will be no record of your existence.
Hope that makes sense.
I like the idea that the timeline you exist in is that and can still be determined but everything that happened in the pasr is set in stone. Future time travel is not possible.
In either scenario, I'm more interested in where the matter you're made of will come from:
- You branch off into another timeline and your actions make no difference to the previous timeline
New actions, new consequences.
This. Time traveling is a purely selfish endeavour.
Go back and kill Hitler? Congratulations! Only you understand what changed. Doesn't help the 7 billion people you left in your original timeline.
But you now get to live in a cool alternate reality where the soviet union clashed directly with the allied forces as the axis never existed.
. . .
Kirov reporting.
Branch off probably
I subscribe to multiverse theory. It's probably the safest route and probably most likely.
If it actually existed, then obviously I would subscribe to whatever theory most accurately described how it worked. That's science.
If you're asking which theory I would predict is most likely, knowing only that time travel was possible as a starting point, then there are only two that I'm aware of that are logically consistent. Either:
Single fixed timeline, whereby if you go back in time then whatever you do there was already a part of history from the start. You won't be able to "change" anything because you were always there. This is the approach described by the Novikov self-consistency principle.
Multiple worlds, in which if you go back in time you just end up following a different "branch" of history forward from there.
Any of the models that let you "change your own history" are logically inconsistent and therefore utterly impossible. They just can't exist, like a square triangle or 1=2. They may be fine for entertaining movie plots but don't take them seriously.
I like the persistent present. We simply live with the paradoxes.
"Remember when Hitler was assassinated in 1919, 1933, 1936, and 1939, then off'd himself in his bunker in '45?"
My personal favorite?
Space and time is an infinite number of parallel realities that constantly compress and unravel at every possible random chance. We are 4th (or 3.5th) dimensional beings that experience the most probable result aggregated from an infinite existence. If you time travel back in time, and change the past, it would not affect the your past, but it would affect your future, if you time traveled back to your current time.
From a quantum perspective the Deutschian and similar models are honestly pretty compelling. They essentially require matching up the past and present in a consistent way that can remove paradoxes.
These make the most sense because it's entirely possible to write down spacetimes that contain "closed time like curves" (CTCs) ie. paths connecting past and present and you can then just let physics play out on these models (or more commonly using black box quantum circuits). The only consistent way to do it is to make sure the past and future side of such curves agree. It's not my area at all, just something colleagues of mine did, but from memory there are nice approaches using the path integral formalism that work really nicely in these scenarios.
All that's to say that I don't think time travel leads to anything changing, the past will have always agreed with whatever time travel happens in the future.
Having worked very briefly with the spacetimes that produce CTCs, I don't expect we'll be able to time travel because they usually violate the weak energy condition.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics_of_time_travel
Primer because Primer. (Video warning and some spoilers for a bunch of different films.)
I don't know if I would subscribe to it, but it is one of the more interesting ideas for time travel.
Primer spoilers, kinda, xkcd style:
Whatever it is, I don't believe paradoxes are possible (other than language ones that basically just confuse any attempts to resolve a statement or set of statements to true or false without breaking any physical laws or causality).
That said, I don't think an unstable time loop would necessarily be impossible. Eg, you go back in time and kill your grandfather before your father is conceived, which results in you never existing in the timeline, which then means no one is there to go back in time and kill your grandfather, which means the loop disappears and the timeline snaps back to the version where you do go back, and it continually alternates from there.
Not sure if any future outside of the unstable loop would exist, I think that would depend on if there's a higher dimension of time that these loops could play out over.
Or, if everything experiences the same present at the same time, it's also possible that after the first loop, it wouldn't go back to resolve the whole "killer pops out of literally nowhere" because it was in the past and no time traveler is bringing the timeline back to there, so it's all in the past. Though I think in that case, you wouldn't disappear after killing your grandfather. You'd just be an enigma that would require going outside of time to understand the origin of.
Tbh though I'm 99% sure time travel just isn't possible (paradoxes or not), just a fun thing to think about. And no, I don't consider quantum effects being symmetrical in time to be time travel, they are just cases where you can reverse cause and effect and still have a valid cause and effect sequence.
I believe it's impossible in the real universe.
Sure there are solutions of general relativity that contain time loops, but they require stuff like an infinitely long cylinder, or escaping a spinning black hole, or negative energy. I just don't believe beings made of finite matter and with finite energy will ever be able to time travel (except into the future at various rates) and that's the only kind of beings I think exist.
The current scientific theory is that time exists across space in cones that would require one to move faster than the speed of light to alter. Going to go with that one for now since I have no idea personally.
Light cones aren't exactly literal cones of time, they are an abstraction to help us understand the mathematics of time and space. (Assuming you are talking about Penrose diagrams.)
Yes, it was light cones. I was half remembering the uni module I did on the philosophy of time a decade ago. We spent more time on the grandfather paradox than the actual science!
Wormholes. Travel some place faster than light and see light from the past from your source of travel when you arrive, travel again back to your original spot and theoretically you travel backwards in time to before the light from the past that you just saw was even produced yet. Might work the same for just seeing the future if you glimpse through a wormhole that leads to someplace in the future by doing an Allie oop to further into the future someplace far away, then back to someplace in your future but your destinations past. Speed and gravity both impact time. A wormhole fits that description to a T.
Only 1 timeline matters. You're own. Everything else becomes fluid around your timeline when you time travel.
The timeline IS fragile, but the whole of existence is not in regards to time travel. If you go into the past and change it, the timeline changes, but only because the original timeline had you going back and changing it. You can see yourself. You can interact with yourself, but if everything is exactly as it should be you really don't want to go mucking around and find yourself in a world where the south lost the civil war but things are thousands of times worse and you killed the ancesotor of the inventor of time travel after breaking your machine and can no longer access the timeline to fix any issues you may have caused.
The past, present, and future do not exist as separate states.
Imagine a vast array of all possible states of matter in the universe. Imagine reality has a finite spacial resolution. With a series of numbers, or even a single very large number, you could provide a unique identifier for every possible arrangement of matter in the universe. The positions of every star and galaxy. The detailed interactions of every quark. Imagine a list or array that would have a number of entries equal to some indecent multiple of "ten to the ten to the ten...." Imagine all these possible states, every possible configuration the matter of the universe could occupy.
Then realize...All of these possible states exist at once. They are all as real as any other. There is no preferred state. They all exist in some vast "10 to the ten to the ten" dimensional spacetime. What we perceive as the flow of time is simply us moving from one of these states to another. But our consciousness cannot move arbitrarily between states. There are elaborate rules on which states you will be able to observe dependent upon the states you previously observed. We call these rules the laws of physics.
So when you travel through time, you are simply altering your path on this vast multiverse of possible realities. There is no "real" reality. They are all real. Every possible configuration of the matter and energies of the universe physically exist concurrently.
There are no timelines to split or erase, because there are no timelines. There are just conscious minds moving through a near-infinite array of possible "nows." And all of the nows exist simultaneously. There is no real one. From the perspective of a "time traveler," it will seem like they changed "the future." But the truth is the very idea of a past, present, and future as distinct entities is madness. We're just consciousness drifting through the continuum, from one of the near-infinite nows to another.
