I will rue the day this inevitably happens. : memes

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Yesterday I bought something on Steam for the first time in many years. (I have a large Steam library, but in recent years I've been getting games from gog and itch instead.)

Since I hadn't bought from Steam in a long time I figured I should read the "Steam Subscriber agreement" that you have to click to accept when you buy something. Let me just say now, the agreement is a very very bad deal for customers.

It goes to great lengths to make it very clear that you don't own anything. You aren't buying anything, you have no essentially rights. You are simply paying for a license subscription to use software with various conditions. Valve is able to end your subscription with no refund if you break the agreement. And the best bit:

Furthermore, Valve may amend this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use) unilaterally at any time in its sole discretion.

So by using Steam we're putting a lot of trust in Valve; because the 'agreement' basically says they can do whatever they want, any time they want, for any reason they want.

Steam is quite good. I particularly appreciate their Linux support. But they are clearly using their position of dominance to make people agree to unfavourable terms. At the moment, things are fine. But make no mistake - when you use Steam, Valve has all the power. They can screw people over whenever they choose to.

With all that in mind, buying DRM free is better if you want to still have access to the software when a company decides to change direction for whatever reason.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Apparently you like to read. Open the EULA for basically any commercial software (not FOSS or open source, costs money, isn't made by some small company, basically the same criteria as >90% of the games on Steam) and you are going to learn 2 things very quickly. First, all of them are just a license to use, and second, if there are patches or an online component you will have at least as many caveats and restrictions as what is included in the Steam TOS.

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong or that I'm okay with this situation (I look for open source, free, then paid for all the software that lets me do whatever it is I'm trying to do), but the situation with Steam is very typical.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Terms like that matters more for some services than for others. For something like Spotify or Netflix, if they terminate the agreement it doesn't matter much. You lose access, but there was no accumulated value. So you can just go somewhere with only minor inconvenience. Whereas on Steam, if they terminate the agreement then you could lose decades worth of accumulated games from your library - which could be very valuable. So that's a big difference.

Now, it's unlikely that Steam will just press delete on everyone's account. But we can imagine a very profit-hungry leader taking over Steam and deciding to put the squeeze on their vast user-base. There are many things they could do; such as adding ads, requiring 'consent' to include spyware on your computer, or charging additional fees. Long term users would not be in a position to refuse these things, because their Steam library is being held as collateral.

If you trust that Steam is never going to give you up, and never going to let you down, etc. Then there is no problem. Things are currently going fine, and they may continue to be fine for a very long time. It's just a matter of trust, and power, and hedging.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

The thing here is, people will talk and if there are any serious issues, a lot of people, myself included, will have no moral objection to pirating the games they already paid for access to. And in some jurisdictions, it won't even be illegal. Like with most enshittification situations, it isn't going to be there one day and gone the next, so liberating your games won't be overly difficult.

The big gotcha will be online multi-player games. If you don't have a server, the client doesn't matter.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Very good point. Just because Valve hasn't screwed us over yet is no excuse for assuming they never will.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Not saying that I disagree, but it has basically always been written like that...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Yeah, but that's not a reason that something is bad. As pointed out. Buying DRM free is the only possibility to really own the games you purchased.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

NoOoOoO. You're not allowed to bad mouth Steam here. Everything steam does is amazing. Steam is nothing like those filthy console companies. Steam good guys. Steam forever friend

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's to keep people from doing stuff like requiring refunds or court cases for being banned, VAC or otherwise. To make some things not technically gambling, etc.

Valve is the paragon of gamers. They offer a great portal, free no bs family shares, pressure companies into sales on legacy software. Push VR from meme status (the oculus is even originally stolen valve tech look it up). Steam stream, steam controller, steam deck emulation of Nintendo switch, Jesus it's endless.

And still there are people like you out here who have to lead with complaints about a bunch of text which everyone knows is exclusively for legal piss matches against companies and troublemakers.

I don't know how you can be pleased by anything. Isn't your life tiring living the life of a zealot? Or do you have just an unsatisfiable need to complain?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It goes to great lengths to make it very clear that you don't own anything. You aren't buying anything, you have no essentially rights. You are simply paying for a license subscription to use software with various conditions. Valve is able to end your subscription with no refund if you break the agreement.

True, but:

but in recent years I've been getting games from gog

GOG shills always claim their platform is better because muh DRM-free games and actual ownership but GOG's User Agreement states:

We give you and other GOG users the personal right (known legally as a 'licence') to use GOG services and to download, access and/or stream (depending on the content) and use GOG content. This licence is for your personal use. We can stop or suspend this licence in some situations, which are explained later on.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

But once you have downloaded the installer you have the game drm free. Put it on a usb stick or whatever, your gog account doesn't matter any more.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Yeah. That's the difference. GOG can withdraw their services, but not the software that you've downloaded. Whereas Steam explicitly states that using the software may require their services (and it usually does).

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I'm actually pretty worried about him dying. Hopefully he has a chosen successor that he's indoctrinated.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I would rather hope that he legalizes and codifies the "flat" management structure, disallowing any one figure head from taking over and fucking things up.

Valve annoys people because it can be slow to choose to do something, because everyone works on what they want to work on, but it means average workers have a lot more agency in how they're involved in the company.

I'm sure there's till unofficial cliques and leaders, but having it in legalese for the employees post-Gabe would be nice.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I would argue the flat management makes it hard for Valve to produce things and they should re-evaluate it, but you can do this while also not turning into a rank and yank shit out fortnite clones 420 69 flossing scheme to fuck over users and line their pockets.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I think that's a valid take, and I think Valve has sort of re-evaluated it, because if I recall correctly, they kind of had to "put on hold" the "do whatever you want" bit to get Half Life: Alyx out of the door. So, imho, it seems like they're capable of doing both. They managed to produce a high quality VR game by putting the "flat" on the backburner, and them coming back to it later.

Although, to be fair, I hadn't heard anything similar about the SteamDeck or any Valve hardware, really. So if they can make a SteamDeck from scratch, an entire new product category, with the flat management structure, I bet it's not holding them back half as much as some folks at GlassDoor seem to think.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Its really hard to get a look inside Valve, because I can't confirm/deny the Steam Deck came about because of the flat management. I'll be honest, my apprehension about their management stems from the many failed attempts to conclude the franchise they started in Half-Life and how 20 different projects died to get to Alyx. Would a change in leadership get us more of the same? Maybe. It would probably be a substandard product, and i'm still recovering from Starfield being mid.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

Starfield was Bethesda, though. Eons of distance between those two studios.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

The problem with that is that they're a private company so that can just be undone by the largest share holder, unless that codification also splits up his equity across the employees.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Tbf as long as it doesn't go public it will probably be fine regardless of who takes the job. It doesn't take a genius to keep up the good work in a company that can afford to plan long time.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I guess you've never had a "new boss" come in, huh? Even in a private company?

Man, new bosses love to shake things up, to "make the workplace theirs." It's literally one of the most common things to happen when new bosses come, and very often it results in a deep change in company interpersonal politics.

Barry used to be your go-to guy, but the new boss has decided they just don't like Barry. Why? They couldn't tell you, but Barry gets under their skin, so it doesn't matter how he's the best guy on the team who can handle whatever is thrown at him, his role is going to be dilluted and minimized and he's going to be pushed and prodded by negative management to try to get him to just quit. Eventually, Barry will just quit because who wants to work under those conditions. Barry found a better job, and now he's replaced by your new bosses 20-something nephew who doesn't know what the fuck he is doing at all and everyone can't stand. He's a fucking loser who keeps getting promoted by the new boss.

I've been through that too many times to pretend it's just "that easy." No, generally the kind of people drawn to that role are controlling dickheads who have their own dickhead "vision" of being the biggest dickhead to ever dickhead.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (3 children)

From my understanding his son is set to take over when the time comes.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Not sure why this would happen when Valve doesn't need any extra money from the markets, and is privately owned. Gabe owns >50%, rest is apparently Valve's employees and execs. Gabe is divorced, has two sons, so I suppose that 50% goes to those guys. So I guess it depends how much the brothers think they need cash.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

You know the Hedge Fund Fuckies are just fucking salivating at the thought of Valve being available to buy.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I hope he has some sort of contingency plan. Perhaps he can find a successor.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (3 children)

If you're reading this GabeN, make Valve a non-profit.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Worker co-op. Non-profits are pretty easy to rig for the benefit of the C-levels.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Easy-peasey to rig. Worker co-op isn't a bad idea.

I vote that as a second to finding a successor, and giving the whole thing to them, sans whatever kickbacks to family etc that he wants.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Well I'm glad we've all found an equitable and legally binding way to divide Lord Gaben's assets on his death!

And they say the Internet never solved anything.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

I hope that GabeO will be ready for release soon.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

He's on 4chan last I heard

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

He's been on 4chan since before he started the company. Why do you think they got so popular so quick?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

If a game is on GOG, I'd rather buy it there than on steam. Steam is great and they do a lot of great stuff, but you don't own the game if you buy it through steam.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I buy my favorite games from GOG when they're there so that I can keep the install files forever.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

If Steam turns to shit I'll just pirate all my games again. I've already paid for them anyway.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

I hope they keep with Linux...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Valve is a company whose profit model is based on DRM. They were never your friend. Thanks for proton, though.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Lemmy: Corporations are terrible. None of them have your back. They're all just out to make money and the only reason they pay their employees is because slavery is illegal.

Also Lemmy: Step on me harder, Daddy Gaben!

Shit has some real Tesla-bro circa 2013 energy.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Look, despite Musk's PR, I never read a story about Musk like this:

In 2004, Wolpaw was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis. Expecting his condition to require a departure from the company, he spoke with managing director Gabe Newell, who surprised him by offering an extended leave with pay. "Your job is to get better," Newell said. "That is your job description at Valve. So go home to your wife and come back when you are better."

Gabe Newell isn't some kind of saint, but he does at least treat his employees like human beings, unlike Musk who famously berates his employees and treats them incredibly badly, especially if they have to (gasp!) miss work for any reason.

So while people shouldn't be praising Valve as some kind of panacea in the world, because they're still just a company, the reality is things like this have endeared Newell to the gaming community and made them believe he did care about a quality work environment.

A reminder, 2004 was before Wolpaw had written for multiple hit games from Valve. Portal came out in 2007 with Wolpaw as one half of the writing team. A few years later he would be head writer on Portal 2.

Those games would not have been the same if he had been let go from Valve when he was sick with ulcerative colitis.

Just a different perspective, I think it's unfair to compare Newell to a fucking slave drive apartheid fuckhead like Musk.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Valve has been compared to Lord of the Flies because of its corporate structure by multiple people who worked for them. The company has an internal ranking system that determines compensation. It's also one of the least diverse workplaces in its industry, being overwhelmingly white and male.

https://www.pcgamer.com/valves-unusual-corporate-structure-causes-its-problems-report-suggests/

https://www.pcgamer.com/ex-valve-employee-describes-ruthless-industry-politics/

So, while I'm glad that Gabe was nice to one of his direct reports, the reality is that the president of the company being nice to one specific person doesn't make the company good or ethically ran.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Yeah but it's typical to spew negativity without having any solution

You really prefer amazon's meat grinder policies?

No Corp has ever been good we can still hope and try

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

The problem is not Gabe. As far as i can tell, Gabe actually cares.

The problem is the CEO that comes after Gabe. Will your games still be available then?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Maybe we'll get lucky and Gaben will leave ownership of the company collectively to it's employees.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

That would be the best outcome, legal framework for the "flat" management structure, making it an employee owned company.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Hey now. A divorce could also sink things. He doesn't have to die for things to go to shit.

(I know nothing of his personal life.)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Well his name didn't show up in Epstein's public records (unlike a certain CEO from a company Microsoft bought/CEO that founded/ran Microsoft) so we're fine there.

And I did look. Extensively.

It's a good sign because 1) He's smart enough to not have a paper trail and/or 2) His hobbies are innocuous, like, I think he really only cares about submersibles and knives and he wasn't stabbing people on some carbon fiber tube near the titanic so he's not a dumbass either.

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