It's a meme
this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2023
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In what way is the Late Victorian Age "Pro-Western"? In the same way Dschengis Khan was "Pro-Western"? Besides, ONE book is quite vague for such an assumption as your claim isn't even listed in the list of great famines.
Oh, and you claim the Holodomor didn't happen? Well, let me guess, Stalin also didn't got 30 million sowiet people killed?
Tovarishch, your lies gave away whose bread you eat.
It is literally a book about western liberal democracies committing genocide, including through intentionally creating famines.
Listen if you want to believe nazi propaganda that was used to justify collaborating with the holocaust you can be my guest. You just won't be in line with the mainstream academic concensus on the subject.
Suuure... Stalin was an agent of the West, send to kill Russians. Just like Dschingis Khan and Mohammed. All Agents of the West.
Thank you for making me aware of everything.
I will repeat:
Listen if you want to believe nazi propaganda that was used to justify collaborating with the holocaust you can be my guest. You just won’t be in line with the mainstream academic concensus on the subject.
Ah, the beauty of repeating the same stupid claim to make it appear more true.
While I appreciate your enthusiasm for alternative viewpoints, it's worth noting that mainstream academic consensus is typically based on extensive research, rigorous analysis, and a wealth of evidence. If you're inclined to embrace Nazi propaganda as a historical truth, you might find yourself in the rather exclusive company of conspiracy theorists. But hey, who needs consensus when you can have a party of one?
Well, I must say, your unique perspective certainly adds a touch of humor to the conversation! Your ability to find amusement in the unlikeliest of places is truly admirable. Keep those witty remarks coming, and you might just give the comedians a run for their money!
Have you read literally any academic literature on ukrainian collaboration with the holocaust, or any academic literature on the holodomor after the soviet archives opened?
Have you read any history on the way Hearst Collaborated with the nazis?
Have you read anything about the first time the holodomor story aired, and how it was debunked?
No?
Then you're just following corporate media opinion because you trust corporate media more than actual historians(many of who are anticommunist), even though the corporate media opinion is literally nazi propaganda that was used to justify killing jews, and all the facts in the world wouldn't reason you out of a position you've gotten into based on blind trust.
-Holodomor after the Soviet archives opened: The Holodomor was a man-made famine that occurred in Soviet Ukraine in 1932-1933. While the Soviet government initially denied the existence of the famine, evidence of the Holodomor has emerged from various sources, including Soviet archives. The opening of these archives has allowed researchers to further study and document the tragedy. You are basically claiming the Soviets and Putin themselves are lying. And you know what happens to people who say Putin lies.
-Debunking of the Holodomor: The Holodomor has been widely recognized as a tragic event in which millions of Ukrainians died due to forced collectivization and deliberate policies by the Soviet government. While there have been attempts to downplay or deny the extent of the famine in the past, the overwhelming consensus among scholars and researchers is that the Holodomor was a real and devastating event.
-Ukrainian collaboration with the Holocaust: It is true that there were instances of collaboration by some individuals and groups in Ukraine during World War II. However, it is important to note that these collaborations were not representative of the entire Ukrainian population. Many Ukrainians were victims of the Holocaust themselves, and others actively resisted the Nazi regime.
-William Randolph Hearst and Nazi collaboration: There have been allegations and claims suggesting that William Randolph Hearst collaborated with the Nazis. While Hearst's media empire did have a complicated relationship with Nazi Germany, it is important to approach such claims with critical analysis and rely on credible historical sources to understand the nuances and facts surrounding this topic. Basically your argument is "because a Nazi sympathisant wrote the Soviets were blood drinking madmen they were actually nice guys".
It's important to approach historical topics with an open mind and rely on reputable sources, including academic research and scholarly consensus. While historians may have different interpretations and perspectives, the field of history relies on evidence-based analysis and rigorous research methodologies to uncover the truth to the best of our knowledge.
Sources Holodomor after the Soviet archives opened: "Red Famine: Stalin's War on Ukraine" by Anne Applebaum "The Holodomor Reader: A Sourcebook on the Famine of 1932-1933 in Ukraine" edited by Bohdan Klid and Alexander J. Motyl "The Holodomor: An Introduction" by Bohdan Klid and Alexander J. Motyl "The Holodomor and the Film 'Bitter Harvest': Soviet and Post-Soviet Memory in Ukraine" by Serhy Yekelchyk "The Ukrainian Famine: Sources of Information at the Hoover Institution" by Robert Conquest
ChatGPT is awaiting your next hate speech eagerly.
All but one of the sources it cited either state the opposite of what chatgpt said they do or don't exist
From a guardian review of the book: "Though sympathetic to the sentiments behind it, [Applebaum] ultimately doesn’t buy the Ukrainian argument that Holodomor was an act of genocide."
This book doesn't exist as far as I'm aware
This book doesn't exist either
This book also doesn't seem to exist
Don't try to derail the discussion. Toothbrush argued that the Holdomor never happened while the whole world knows somewhere between three and five million Ukrainians died during this part of Stalins reign. We never even discussed if it was a genocide.
So show your true intentions and explain to me:
And as a nice excursus, the total numbers of people dying to Stalins misrule is nearly the same as those who died to the Axis Invasion. A nice chap, old Stalin, isn't he? But calm down, he is only number two after Mao in murdering his own people. And that is what Putin is aiming for, recreation of Stalinism.
The argument is that the famine in 1932-1933 wasn't a genocide, according to such notable anti-soviet historians as Conquest, Davies, Wheatcroft, and even Applebaum.
It was caused by, among other things, a lack of an independent review of numbers collected by local officials throughout the USSR, being forced to use wheat as a currency to trade with europe, the need for rapid industrialization in anticipation of another invasion (which eventually happened) and to a lesser extent sabotage of the harvest and killing of livestock by the local propertied class in opposition to collectivization among the poor peasants. All of these factors combined with bad weather within a normal range (that caused famines elsewhere) led to the famine.
This is actually holocaust trivialization, according to Jewish experts on the holocaust in Eastern Europe.
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
The writer is notable as a historian and as an activist who fought to protect two jewish holocaust survivors who were being tried as soviet collaborators (they were just random jewish survivors of the holocaust). He does not, to my knowledge, have any connection to the soviet union or communism.
As someone who had family that survived a nazi death camp, I would consider trusting the source of that misinfo significantly less.
why are you posting generated spam?
Lol you're using a statistical model that isnt capable of discerning meaning to try to disprove mainstream academics like Conquest and Wheatcroft.
ChatGPT isn't designed to say correct things, it is designed to put a bunch of letters together that are in the general shape of an essay assignment for highschoolers. This is comical.
Please note that the last book it cites(which doesn't exist, in fact I dont think any of the books cited actually exist) is credited to Robert Conquest, and he says that the ukrainian famine was not a genocide.