this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2023
737 points (84.7% liked)

Memes

45189 readers
1872 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
737
eat the rich (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

It's a meme

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

All but one of the sources it cited either state the opposite of what chatgpt said they do or don't exist

“Red Famine: Stalin’s War on Ukraine” by Anne Applebaum

From a guardian review of the book: "Though sympathetic to the sentiments behind it, [Applebaum] ultimately doesn’t buy the Ukrainian argument that Holodomor was an act of genocide."

“The Holodomor: An Introduction” by Bohdan Klid and Alexander J. Motyl

This book doesn't exist as far as I'm aware

"The Holodomor and the Film ‘Bitter Harvest’: Soviet and Post-Soviet Memory in Ukraine” by Serhy Yekelchyk

This book doesn't exist either

"The Ukrainian Famine: Sources of Information at the Hoover Institution” by Robert Conquest

This book also doesn't seem to exist

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Don't try to derail the discussion. Toothbrush argued that the Holdomor never happened while the whole world knows somewhere between three and five million Ukrainians died during this part of Stalins reign. We never even discussed if it was a genocide.

So show your true intentions and explain to me:

  1. Did Millions die during the Holdomor?
  2. Did it happen because Stalin stole the food?
  3. Did Stalin and Putin forbid to talk about it?

And as a nice excursus, the total numbers of people dying to Stalins misrule is nearly the same as those who died to the Axis Invasion. A nice chap, old Stalin, isn't he? But calm down, he is only number two after Mao in murdering his own people. And that is what Putin is aiming for, recreation of Stalinism.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Toothbrush argued that the Holdomor never happened

The argument is that the famine in 1932-1933 wasn't a genocide, according to such notable anti-soviet historians as Conquest, Davies, Wheatcroft, and even Applebaum.

It was caused by, among other things, a lack of an independent review of numbers collected by local officials throughout the USSR, being forced to use wheat as a currency to trade with europe, the need for rapid industrialization in anticipation of another invasion (which eventually happened) and to a lesser extent sabotage of the harvest and killing of livestock by the local propertied class in opposition to collectivization among the poor peasants. All of these factors combined with bad weather within a normal range (that caused famines elsewhere) led to the famine.

And as a nice excursus, the total numbers of people dying to Stalins misrule is nearly the same as those who died to the Axis Invasion.

This is actually holocaust trivialization, according to Jewish experts on the holocaust in Eastern Europe.

https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory

The writer is notable as a historian and as an activist who fought to protect two jewish holocaust survivors who were being tried as soviet collaborators (they were just random jewish survivors of the holocaust). He does not, to my knowledge, have any connection to the soviet union or communism.

As someone who had family that survived a nazi death camp, I would consider trusting the source of that misinfo significantly less.