this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2024
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49
Virgin Media Warns UK Broadband Users Not to Switch Routers Off at Night - ISPreview UK (www.ispreview.co.uk)
submitted 1 month ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 month ago

Have the router ask the server if there's an update available when turned on. If none, proceed as usual; if there is, force the update, regardless of the time of the day. Problem solved.

Of course, for that you need to acknowledge that you violated the "ask, don't be an assumer" rule, instead of bossing customers around with "golden rules". You won't change their silly and pointless habits anyway.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 month ago (2 children)

High energy bills and misinformation about energy saving seems to be causing some odd behaviour here in the UK.

I have relatives who go round turning off every device and appliance at night, despite the negligible power draw they have in standby. Another will only charge their phone at night during cheaper the electricity rate - but runs the tumble dryer during the day.

I also often hear stories about people fearing electronic devices will catch fire if left on standby over night. Which may well be a risk for charging a dodgy Chinese e-bike but probably not for a home router.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

People really thought their routers running on 12V/2A would catch on fire at night?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

When raspis came out like 12 years ago, I was still in my teenage years, and I wanted to keep one on the network. My mother was fucking terrified because it generated heat.

5V 1A means nothing to these people and no amount of facts will shut them up. Some people just inherently fear the unknown. Mixed with willful ignorance, it can be an infuriating combo.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Part of the reason I went to school for computer engineering is just so when people try to argue stupid bullshit like leaving your router plugged in will start a fire, hopefully they'll recognize that im qualified enough to know better and fuck off.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

im qualified enough to know better

Maybe if you make YouTube videos you'd achieve that.

Regarding experts, there's so many topics where experts are ignored.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 month ago

This might save a tiny bit of electricity,

...and therefore it is the users perfect right to do it or not to do it.

Unless the provider pays for that "tiny bit of" electricity, they have no say in this decision.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

Read the title and went: What? They want you to keep your network hardware ON, when unattended, to increase the undetected malware entry opportunities?

Turns out it as their own devices they wanted to push updates to.

I would really prefer to use my own device though and even better, configure it myself after learning how the ISP's network works. But convenience is what it is.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The malware argument is a bit weak, if your router is vulnerable to something it'll likely be found and pwnd in a matter of minutes, so turning it off a night won't really save you. And once a patch is released, it'll be reverse engineered in a few hours/days, so ideally you want patches as soon as they are released.

Using your own device is usually a good idea anyway, telco stuff is usually pretty mediocre. And as soon as your device is slightly custom, it becomes a less valuable target.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

The malware argument is a bit weak

It's much more than just a bit weak, unless you are somehow continuously monitoring it, so yeah, in most end-user scenarios, it would hardly make a difference to keep it on, even if there were no updates.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Yep, after moving from Germany to the UK I was pretty surprised that in the UK you’re not supposed to get this kind of information from your ISP.

In Germany you can get your own DSL/cable/fibre modem and your ISP has to give you the necessary information to get these devices into their network.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

you’re not supposed to get this kind of information from your ISP

Wait, do you mean, it's illegal to ask for it?
In my case, it just depends upon the ISP's policy.

In fact, with the current ISP, even though they provide their on modem (copper line), it has a pure bridge mode available, which I can connect to my other router and have fun looking at those packets with full transparency and the tech even went ahead and explained to me what I messed up, before resetting the modem for me, when I did use the bridge mode.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Not illegal, but the ISPs are seemingly under no obligation to give you those details. In Germany, there’s the “freedom of routers” embedded in the telco law. So they HAVE to give you everything you need to get your custom router online via their wire/fibre.

Bridge mode is just using the ISPs router and bridge that into your router. It’s not the same - you still need the ISP’s access device instead of just yours.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Not illegal, but the ISPs are seemingly under no obligation to give you those details. In Germany, there’s the “freedom of routers” embedded in the telco law. So they HAVE to give you everything you need to get your custom router online via their wire/fibre.

OIC, so, same as here. Germany seems to be having pretty well made laws in these cases.

Bridge mode is just using the ISPs router and bridge that into your router. It’s not the same - you still need the ISP’s access device instead of just yours.

Except that it is a layer 2 bridge and I couldn't connect to the network directly, either way, because their line is copper ^[] and consumer routers/modems are usually RJ45/RJ11.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

See, in Germany you can buy your own cable modem or fibre endpoint and connect that to the copper wire/fibre line.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

I feel like we can do the same in other places too.
It just doesn't make much sense for me to buy one of those, considering I don't expect to be using a copper endpoint anywhere else I go.
I probably will get my own Fiber modem when viable (as in, I get a provider that doesn't force their own modem on me).

The major Fibre player here, requires use of their modem, of which, even the WiFi password can only be changed using their Android app. Said app connects to the internet and most probably tells their systems the new password to change to (which would of course, be in plain text), which then remotely changes the WiFi password.
Most probably, other major ones do the same.

There are some smaller players (probably Tier2/3 ISPs), which would let us have our own modems after enough effort, so I'd probably go with one of those.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Most providers in the US allow it too. It's great that Germany has it enshrined in law, but in practice it's not the exception.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

It's been allowed everywhere I have ever lived in the US.

The issues you'll run into is they get all stupid about it if your service ever goes down. They'll always blame your router/modem first. (Literally the entire neighborhood could be down and they'll act like it's something specific to your device). Sometimes they try to charge an install fee or a connection fee or other dumb shit.

I think their are local laws that require them to allow byod too. It depends on your area though.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

It's only Virgin Media to my knowledge who does this.
Most of the other providers are happy for you to use anything that works properly for VDSL or FTTP.

Most FTTP providers fit an ONT that puts the connection back into an RJ45 ethernet connector.
Then you connect to the provider using PPPOE. Anything past the ONT, you can do whatever you like.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

Here is literally no different.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

you don't need to know how the ISP network works, you only need some networking concepts. Subnets/addressing and very basic routing (for a basic setup). You won't even need firewall rules if you don't host anything at your place (that needs to be accessed from outside)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Sorry. I'm addicted to knowledge. I need to know.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

Chad