333
TIL that Ferrari & Lamborghini no longer make cars with a manual transmission
(www.motortrend.com)
i am not ordering cars from them anymore /s
this post was submitted on 27 Aug 2024
333 points (96.6% liked)
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yeah me too. I was like, about to and stuff.
Well then, I'm going to order twice as many cars from them next year as I did last year.
Thank god you put the /s there.
Plenty of brands stopped offering manual variants of plenty of models. IIRC BMW practically begged people to stop asking for manual variants, saying it just does not make any sense to mess with the supply chain and the production line and the car itself just to put an objectively inferior transmission inside it.
On the contrary, it makes no sense to put automatic transmissions into sports cars.
On public roads, you're not gonna be able to drive them as fast as they can go anyway.
An automatic transmission may offer better performance, but you have 5x as much of that as you can use already.
What a manual transmission offers is the feeling of being in full control.
It's simply more fun and engaging to drive.
But apparently, cars aren't made to offer the best experience possible anymore.
Auto transmissions are now cheaper and anyone can drive them, so the potential market is bigger. And that's what matters, even up to the Lamborghini price bracket.
What a manual transmission offers is the feeling of being in full control.
Being able to maintain a gear selection and being able to directly control the clutch are huge advantages in specific conditions like extreme weather or some off road terrain. A surprise shift during a curve in icy conditions makes me nervous every time for example.
If an automatic system allowed for direct control of gears and the ability to disengage and reingage the clutch on demand it would cover those scenarios.
The company car I get to use has an automatic transmission that drives me mad.
Its shift points are always right above the speeds I usually drive at.
It shifts into third at 40 km/h which is too fast for a speed limit of 30.
It shifts into fourth at 60 which is too fast for a speed limit of 50.
And it shifts into fifth at 80 which is too fast for a speed limit of 70.
So you're constantly driving with too high rpm's, burning more fuel and making more noise than you'd have to.
It has a "manual mode" where you can shift by moving the stick up or down. But it doesn't actually do anything. If you shift at a different point than the automatic would, you just get a "shift denied" message on the dash, even though the rpm's wouldn't even get close to being too low.
And when you push the gas pedal just a bit more than half, it shifts down and the engine roars, but it doesn't actually achieve much cause the car doesn't have much power.
Internal combustion engines are most fuel-efficient at low rpm's (<1500) and full throttle, and that's impossible to do with this transmission. So it only gets 34mpg (7l/100km), and it's a Diesel hatchback. My old manual car also had a 34mpg rating, but the way I drive I could get 47 (5l/100km), and it had a gasoline engine.
My current car with a stick is able to squeeze 34 MPG highway, 3 over the rated 31. However, the CVT version is rated for 38 highway in the same conditions.
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The systems used in these cars are dual clutch - they always offer (or only have) a manual shift mode, which will hold the gear you're in until you say when, and only down/upshift if you bang the rev limiter or try to go below minimum RPM.
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What is "best experience" though? It's such a subjective thing. For you it might be pushing a lever back and forth. For every one person like you, I bet there are hundreds who'd rather leave that menial task to the car. Manual transmission can quickly stop being "fun and engaging" and become a chore, especially if you drive through traffic regularly.
I, or rather my left leg, personally do not consider manual transmission as a good experience at all. I also think paying much less for fuel is also a very good experience for my wallet. Though of course I don't drive a Lamborghini or even a nice M4, so there's that.
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The M series cars still have manual as an option, although IIRC the automatic versions have better performance. They're a bit outside of my price range, so I'm trying to keep my old manual 328i running as long as I can.
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I got my license in the early 80's, and at that time the cheapest cars were older american beaters with utterly terrible 2 and 3-speed slushbox automatics. The alternative were Japanese cars like Honda Civics, small, reliable, manual transmission cars that got great gas mileage and were way more fun to drive. All these years later I'm still driving a manual, currently a 2021 Toyota Corolla. It's paid for, it gets around 35 mpg, and with regular maintenance it will run until the end of time.
I know American cars have improved a lot since the malaise era but you generally can't get them with manual transmissions, so I'll stick with the imports for now.
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Well when your customer base is mostly geriatric...
I would guess that there's more demand for manuals from older people than from younger people. Younger people can't be nostalgic about stick shifting.
I think there’s a word for it, but essentially false nostalgia. Gen. Z absolutely has a lot of nostalgia for things people say were great despite never experiencing it themselves.
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Yeah. You can't buy a ford or chevy pickup in the united states with a manual transmission anymore.
I know they're not supercars, or anything like that.
Big trucking companies are all going to automatic transmissions in their trucks as well.
I'm a school bus driver - buses with manual transmissions are long gone. The drug use and child molestation filters weed out enough potential drivers as it is.
That escalated quickly...
I would add that those filters only apply to school districts that maintain their own fleets and driver pools. The private bus companies don't generally worry about child abuse or drug use with their drivers - or drinking, speeding, using phones while driving, or paying them well, or providing any benefits ...
Honestly DCTs make up for it, especially when your customer base is mostly people who don't know how to drive anyway.
Using a manual is easy, but using it to go fast can actually be pretty hard. You have to time everything right, compensate for a bunch of conditions, coax the shifter because its using synchros, feather the clutch accordingly, heel-toe downshift correctly, etc. It's extremely rewarding and useful if you actually want to have complete control over your car, but I doubt your average rich guy is gonna want to put that much effort into driving.
Manual shifting a modern Lambo would just be such a chore with how fast the RPM changes too (plus the loss of power from clutch would be even more noticeable). Current high end manuals just choose to stay with 6 gears so the gap stays comfortable, but you obviously lose some efficiency.
DCTs will do that all for you, the only thing you lose is a mechanical shifter (which if you're into manuals you very much miss lol) and the ability to do some clutch tricks (ie loss of some mechanical controls because its automatic).
Now putting a regular old torque converting automatic transmission into a sports car is a waste (and has many examples of such). They are very slow because they aren't deigned to rapidly change gears like you can in a manual. Even a CVT would be better from a practicality standpoint.
Formula 1 switched to semi-automatic in the 1980s. The technology has only improved over the last 40 years. If fast is what you want, driving a manual is insanity.
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What Ferrari and Lamborghini does doesn't concern me but I'll keep buying cars with manual transmission for as long I can get one. I wouldn't buy a new car anyway so that alone gives me atleast 10 extra years. I still refuse to buy smartphones without a headphone jack either. Why? Mostly because of a principle.
What is the principle for manual cars?
They prefer fondling long shafts.
Same
I don't mind driving a manual. Every car I've owned has had a manual transmission so automatic would be a solution to a problem that I don't have. I like driving and I don't want the car to do the driving for me.
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I still refuse to buy smartphones without a headphone jack either.
I'm running out of options and I may have to consider a jackless phone next. What are the options?
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I mean, the reality is that manual/standard transmissions are just fuel and effort inefficient at this point. There was a window where automatics were inefficient enough to make learning stick worth it but that is LONG gone. And CVTs, in apples for apples comparisons, kind of are the best of both worlds.
Still pretty shocked since I don't think anyone buys a ferrari or a lambo because they want a reasonable high quality car and nothing screams "I am compensating" like wrapping your hands around that shaft while you drive but... if the goal is performance?
The main reasons you wanted a manual back in the day was price - because automatic transmissions were expensive - and fuel economy - because they were less efficient. (To a lesser extent reliability, because automatics were newer and they hadn't worked out the kinks yet.)
However, the price of automatics fell, and the dual-clutch gearboxes with 7-10 gears are even more efficient because they keep the car in the most efficient rev range. Same goes for CVTs. And the dual-clutches shift faster than you ever could, so they're better for sports cars, which is why F1 switched to them a long time ago.
So it makes sense that manuals are falling out of favor because they're objectively worse in all respects compared to the transmissions available today. However, subjectively they're a lot more fun which is why I have a manual transmission car I plan on keeping on the road well into the 2050s.
Fun and more control. I too am in the I bought a manual club. Twice my truck and my wife's car are both manual transmissions with a clutch (third pedal).
I guess some of the new dual clutch transmissions are considered manual 🤔
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I just find manuals more fun and engaging to drive. Even an 80hp shitbox is better with a manual.
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I know autos are faster these days but manuals are so much more fun and always will be. It really sucks that they're going away :(
They're all fun and games until you're in stop go traffic. I agree though I miss driving a manual. Also they were easier to work on and tended to be cheaper to fix. That might not be the case anymore considering you're pretty much guaranteed to to have to special order parts.
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It's not that I like manuals, it's that I hate automatics randomly shifting and accelerating/slowing down randomly because of it.
It might not be as big an issue in bigger engines cars though, not driven anything bigger than a 1L engine in over a decade.
Looking forward to a direct drive electric car (with customisable acceleration profiles - even better!)
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I didn't know what a dual clutch transmission was and found this excellent video while searching. Figured I would share it here. Pretty awesome! You get the direct gearing benifits of a manual with the shifting ease and speed of an automatic.
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So you need to download a pdf?
It's taken me a while, but I'm okay with automatic transmissions on cars now. OTOH, you can have the manual transmission on my motorcycle when you pry that clutch lever from my cold, dead hands. (I have a speed shifter on my motorcycle now, and I barely ever use it.)
Ok, so they're performance focused. Who is making cars that are built for the most engaging driving experience? Are those "drive a slow car fast" type cars all already built?
Porsche continues to sell manuals, but alas did do away with it on the upcoming Carrera 992.2 and gts. They have a 40% overall manual sales per this: https://www.motor1.com/news/705017/manual-transmission-sales-2023/
Bmw and others do have high individual model manual take rates (bmw m2/ct5 blackwing e.g. at 60/50% respectively.)
But they'll always be the less performance option, though more "engagement".
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Because nobody wants them. Or rather not enough people want them. Hell, kids these days don't even want to get their drivers licenses. For them Uber is good enough.
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