this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2023
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[–] [email protected] 135 points 1 year ago (15 children)

This is fundamentally false.

While it is true that there was inexpensive housing available in the USSR, and that rents were quite reasonable compared to anything that currently exists in the US, and people couldn't readily be evicted if they lacked the ability to pay, it's a flat-out lie to say that that was the "solution" to homelessness, or that it eliminated the problem. Rather, the USSR criminalized being homeless and not being engaged in socially-productive labor; people that were homeless ended up in prisons and were labelled as parasites. The problem that we have now is that the official records simply didn't record the problem, in much the same way that Stalin had histories and photos revised to eliminate people that had become enemies of the state.

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[–] [email protected] 99 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (75 children)

Why is this shit always communist vs capitalist, like we've only got 2 answers avaliable. You fuckers never set foot in a communist country and worship this shit

Fucking communist countries have killed how many millions of their own citizens? Don't really think showing a picture of some buildings is enough to prove that they actually solved any issues. They may have solved those issues for some who were lucky enough to get an apartment, but don't be a hexbear and pretend they housed everyone.

And no, I don't want a response with a link about hurr duer capitalism bad, yeah I know, but I live in capitalism so I already know that.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (21 children)

This is not "one or the another" situation, communism is the next qualitative stage in development of society. It solves the primary contradiction that we experience in capitalism, that is socialized production being privatized by individuals, aka capitalists.

You can't just declare communism by signing a document, because it is a process of development in which small quantitative changes in production (socialism) lead to a qualitative change (communism), thus to achieve the communism stage you have to achieve a certain level of development.

This is why China is considered a communist country by marxists-leninist even though qualitatively it is a capitalist country. They are actively working to develop communism, this can be clearly seen throughout their rhetoric (i.e. "The Governance of China") and their material results.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (25 children)

Fucking communist countries have killed how many millions of their own citizens?

Bruh, centuries of capitalist exploitation of its citizens and treating them like a disposable commodity would like to have a word on the whole 'citizens killed by their own country' topic.

How many thousands or millions of citizens die yearly because they can't afford to live in this fucked up system?

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[–] [email protected] 90 points 1 year ago (18 children)

This is capitalist solution to homelessness

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago

I love the top one, because it's the same way they deal with pigeons. They see poor people as just another pest.

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[–] [email protected] 86 points 1 year ago (18 children)

These discussions on communism vs capitalism that devolve into comparing the US with the USSR are like discussing feudalism vs liberalism in 1825, when the only perceptible legacies of the French Revolution were the Reign of Terror and Napoleon's degeneration into monarchy.

If you're sensibly anticapitalist, for the love of Marx do not argue in favor of states that rejected all pretension of wanting to let the economy be democratically managed, ultimately turning into party-controlled hierarchies rather than socialism. If you're a liberal in 1825 and rather than arguing in favor of ending serfdom and enfranchising everyone you keep going on about how Robespierre wasn't really that bad, you're politically useless.

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[–] [email protected] 78 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

People tend to argue that commie blocks look depressing and dystopian but you can actually make very pretty neighborhoods with them.

This is where I live. It's called Oyak Sitesi in Turkey/Antalya and it's a beautiful place with an actual community. Very affordable too. We just did a stability test and they were also very durable to earthquakes.

Just because you're making blocks doesnt also mean that they have to be 20 stories tall either. Here is my old house.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The important parts are paint and maintenance.

Give a commie block a fresh coat of paint every decade or so and they can look good (though I just don't like flat roofs. But that's personal taste.)

But while a somewhat run down european style house can still have some charme for longer (guess I'm biased here) a run down commie block in gray and with cracks in the facade will quickly start to look depressing.

And as they are often chosen for cost reasons inside capitalistic environments, they are often neglected.

So, the problem is not commie blocks, but how they are maintained. And as often we tend to search for the extreme examples if we (dis)like something.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago

I happen to live in a city that's primarily blocks (or as we call them: Plattenbauten) and honestly, they're pretty good houses. The structure is sound, after some renovations in the 90s and 00s, insulation and comfort are perfectly fine, and the surroundings are usually very green and pleasant.

The only real problem is, that these buildings are somewhat away from the city center due to superior socialist planning, so they are not super attractive for younger people.

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[–] [email protected] 61 points 1 year ago (25 children)

What if, and hear me out on this one, the problem isn't which "-ism" is prevalent. The real problem is that ANY form of power or society needs checks and balances. If those are missing or not enforced, then everything goes to shit. It's a balancing act, not just a matter of black or white.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But I want to defend my -ism

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago

Sir please put your -ism away, you're scaring the children.

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[–] [email protected] 61 points 1 year ago (53 children)

Why a lot of people on Lemmy like communist so much? As a person who grow up in a country which is almost destroyed by the communist party in the past I don't know what to say just why?, capitalist or not it's depends on your own country's government, at least you still can talking shit about them without getting arrested and torture to death, have we not learn from the past or other communist country, why don't you live in North Korea or China and see how've you like it

[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 year ago (20 children)

I'm going to take your question as genuine and answer in equal.

It's a bit more complicated than that. Most leftists will agree with you, the USSR and other Eastern Europe countries that were communist did a lot of damage and most likely more harm. They committed atrocities. They were authoritarian. It was disgusting.

The leftists who still prop those countries up on their shoulders are what many call tankies. Today they sing praise about Russia, China, and North Korea, but your observation is correct, they won't ever move there. These are individuals who repeat propaganda and are, ultimately, just red fascists. When you actually dig into their ideals they parallel and sometimes mirror Nazis.

I believe leftism cannot have an authoritarian element to it. I think most social hierarchies need to be destroyed. I think the only way to have a socialist society is through democratic means. Democracy in the workplace and national level. I think most of us can agree workers need higher wages and there is a wealth gap that needs to be dismantled. I think most of us believe healthcare needs to be universal, food and shelter and water, education, information (internet), speech, and much more should be free and readily available. There is this element of freedom that needs to be achieved that isn't found the countries that are "communist".

I don't want to explicitly say those communist countries wasn't "real communism", but fascists, authoritarianism, always appropriate from progressive movement. There is no freedom, especially of workers, under a dictatorship. If workers are starving, dying, being outright black bagged and killed, i don't think that can be considered communist.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (6 children)

It's an unfortunately nuanced subject, where people don't agree on the underlying definitions of words. For instance, I think you're confusing "capitalism" with "democracy". You can have authoritarian undemocratic capitalist countries, where you can't talk shit about your government.

For me personally, I think communism has too many issues to actually try, but I like some of its theoretical tennants when compared to that of capitalism. Those goals are something to strive for. The spirit of communism is helping eachother and rewarding work, and the spirit of capitalism is sacrificing others for personal gain

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Because they are reacting to living under the oppressive structures of late capitalism. Having been raised in a capitalist world, they naturally overemphasize economic systems and their alternatives and make assumptions about government.

So when they communism theyusually mean communism + some equitable government or just they mean socialist democracy.

Funnily enough, you live pretty well in China these days if you're a good little capitalist.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Though to be fair, DPRK is the way it is at least in part thanks to the Americans obliterating their cities and farm land. But we can ignore history to make a "I used to be in a communist country and it's bad, trust me bro" statement.

And I agree, I prefer to live in a system where prisoners aren't primarily minorities or political prisoners. And where the prison system isn't the most populated in the world, and rife with for-profit forced labour.

I would also be curious to hear which definition of "capitalism" and "Communism" you are using. That is, if you are open to dialogue.

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[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Please, not this again.... Personally, I am a lot in favour of communism. But some people, especially US Americans, have a fundamentally wrong idea about the housing shown in the upper picture.

This is often neither cheap, nor does it reduce homelessness. And it's also not the goal of that kind of rental homes to reduce homelessness.

That is just normal homes of average people in many places.

It's not "cheap housing for everyone".

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Those houses were built by state-backed actors to support growing urbanization and create a housing surplus for that urbanization to give the workers more power since they no longer have to deal with aggressively rent-seeking private landlords.

Wait, isn't that communism?

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 year ago (13 children)

This is not communist solution, this is half-socialism humant colony solution.

Real communist solutions look like this:

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (16 children)

Shit still looks better than a tent under a bridge you know.

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

I live in north-east Germany in one of these Blocks (it was firmly renovated tho). It's actually not bad. Most of them are build in Horseshoe shape so you have small parks inside. But it's nearly impossible to hang anything to the wall without proper power tools. EDIT: typos

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Capitalism has a solution to the tent problem though

UK - The home secretary is proposing new laws to restrict the use of tents by homeless people, arguing that many of them see it as a "lifestyle choice".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67321319

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago

It sure is a lifestyle choice. The choice is the tent or a cardboard box, fucking insensitive assholes.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (22 children)

Those were not built for homeless people.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (34 children)

Communism's solution to homelessness is mass starvation.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not in the UK. Our government is looking to ban the tents next. That'll fix the homeless issue 😕

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Finland is capitalist and kind of solved homelessness, with there being around only 1.3k homeless people in the entire country (population: 5.6m, which means the rate of homelessness is around 0.02%).

I don't think that communism or any ideology is an answer to homelessness, it's pretty much the job for the government and what kind of systems/reforms they implement.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

"Darn that's a lot of tents, this is starting to become a real problem. Better build more rental properties."

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