this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2023
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[–] [email protected] 153 points 11 months ago (8 children)

The easy, low-cost solution is to build freight rail. But no, that's communism and it doesn't get a tech billionaire their extra billion.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Somehow capitalists all over the world love freight trains. It's just US being dumb as always.

[–] [email protected] 71 points 11 months ago (3 children)

US rail freight is unironically some of the best in the world.

Part of the reason US passenger rail sucks so much is because the network is largely owned by freight companies, so priority always goes to freight over passengers.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago

US freight rail looks great since for one, the freight railways dominate the scene, and for two, the US is up there in network distance as well as cargo transport volume in tonne kilometers. And of course, they have some very high operating margins.

However, the devil's in the details.

For one, if we redefine the amount of cargo transported to be measured in US Dollar kilometers, they're suddenly doing a trash job. Much of the cargo they move is fungible (it doesn't matter what unit of this cargo you have, any kg is a good kg), bulky and not time sensitive. Things like coal, crude oil or gravel are disproportionately common freights on US rails, compared to other places.

Secondly, they put a lot of trains besides the tracks. I recall seeing they managed to derail about 1700 trains a year. Most other train systems don't even do a tenth of that in a decade, even when corrected for track mileage.

Speaking of track mileage, US railroads actively reduce the amount and quality of track, while bitching & moaning to the government and the press that they're overburdened. Meanwhile, they also operate a procedure of precision scheduled railroading, which I'll spare you the details on, but let's just say it's not precise, it's not scheduled and it's barely railroading, and despite forcing some train crews to sit back and do nothing for hours, it still saves them one train crew. The only time they'll actually expand is because either they really did have a bottleneck for decades, or something catastrophically fails.

On top of that, the freight railroads do everything in their power to avoid capital spending, so they refuse to electrify their lines and/or to install more advanced signalling and train protection. One major fuel shock, and American railroads are on their knees while India, China and most of the EU are laughing. And most signalling is unenforced, or maybe functioning at the tech level of AWS.

You just know that if the train in the East Palestine derailment was run not my Norfolk Southern, but by SBB Cargo, the Swiss national railways' cargo branch, then

  1. The track would have been at least doubled, under wires, and secured using a very advanced standard of positive train control.
  2. The train would have been several trains, each hauled by electric locomotives.
  3. The disaster train, at best, would not even have made it out of the yard. At worst, it would have been stopped, and probably directed onto a siding, two towns prior for having a failing bearing.
  4. Passenger trains would have all the room to run down the track they need.
[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The US freight rail industry isn't some of the best in the world, it's actually really quite terrible. It fails to maintain it's infrastructure, can't run to a schedule, frequently loses cargo, and causes ecological disasters. It is good at creating short term profits for shareholders, not being an effective transportation network. If you want more info, here's a video that explains it better.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

It's also conveniently a bunch of companies that don't really overlap and manage effective monopolies in their region.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

US freight rail is fine and a lot of cargo goes by train for the most part. There's still gotta be trucks to get to and from the terminal. Not many facilities have built in rail spurs, or the need to ship an entire train load at once for that matter

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Rails are indeed one of the cheapest, best scaling, and most reliable ways to move goods no doubt, but it also has a last mile problem.

Just wanted to point out the solution isn’t as easy as “rails all things”. Trucks still do offer some situational advantages, and will still have their place in logistics.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I agree with the sentiment, but did you not notice the "across the country" part of the title?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

Fair response. It’s likely due to the lack of rail infrastructure why this delivery was “across the country”. Rails are typically much cheaper per ton-mile than trucks. If a rail alternative existed, I’m fairly certain the economics would have forced the use of trains.

However, I’d say the self driving part is still be a benefit that would improve truck utilization rate.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

The place of trucks in logistics is in hell, delivering coal.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

I wouldn't call effective rail infrastructure "low-cost".

[–] [email protected] 26 points 11 months ago (17 children)

Cheaper than highways. The reason why long haul trucking exists is because the construction of highways is highly subsidized. Even then, it's often more cost effective to use rail.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 11 months ago (9 children)

compared to highways? absolutely low-cost.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I wouldn't exactly call removing nature and laying down the track "easy" either. That's tens of thousands of miles of steel carving through the terrain.

Also, we have a ton of rail, it's just prioritized for freight over passenger transit. A high speed passenger rail network would be nice though.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (9 children)

compared to a 5 lane highway its a pittance - theres a reason why private rail companies can exist but private road companies largely don't.

The problem is there's a lot more federal funding for the shittier solution so when budgetting are you going to build the thing the feds will pay 100% or 0%?

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

If it can be done economically, it'll be done. And it has been, the freight rail network in the US is huge.

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[–] [email protected] 86 points 11 months ago (3 children)

That is literally the most dangerous bike lane in existence

[–] [email protected] 31 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I saw the picture first and finished the headline in my mind:

A self-driving freight truck just drove across several cyclists

[–] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The cyclists were turned into butter

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (2 children)

And then they were delivered

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

I can't believe it's not bikes

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Delivered to

or

Delivered from

?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

No, like a baby.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 11 months ago

holy shit, i thought that was some kind of graphical overlay. that's a bike lane!? that has to be intentional, like some kind of malicious compliance from someone who hates cyclists

[–] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

JFC, whose bright idea was that?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

The buddy of the governor who got the contract lul. At least that's what happened in my friends small town when they built a roundabout that took 4 years to finish for a small 4 lane intersection that had stops before on a road that got maaaaaybe 12 cars a day

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[–] [email protected] 53 points 11 months ago

The next self driving truck will be delivering ice to alaska.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 11 months ago

Hear me out: trains

[–] [email protected] 22 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm sure glad we developed technology just to avoid paying one person to drive that truck. This is progress and will not have knock on consequences. We should celebrate this.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

This, but unironically. Automation is a good thing, and every driver who loses their job over this drives the necessity of finding post-automation solutions that much closer to the breaking point.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago

Oh yes, I'm sure our current socioeconomic systems will get right on finding post automation solutions. That'll happen real soon now. I mean, it'll have to happen, right? We won't just let all the jobs dissolve away so that shareholders get richer, right? That would be crazy to do that. I can't imagine a society that would possibly do that, could you?

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago

This must have been intentional

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

Caption better than meme!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago

their only purpose is to pass butter

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That was hilarious, sad and adorable at the same time. Thank you for the context, I’ve never seen the show before.

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