this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2023
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Noise-canceling robots to 'mute' loud conversations in cafe | What if we told you that we can actually silence a noisy table right next to us in a café?::undefined

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[–] [email protected] 74 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

I've always thought phase cancellation technology could potentially be crazy revolutionary. Seems these guys know what they're doing, but the real challenges come with high decibel levels if I remember right.

If you tried to phase cancel out the sound of a jet engine, it would work and you wouldn't hear it, but you could also have easily just burst your eardrums too, because the sound pressure level is still present, even if the actual sound is inaudible. It's a crazy phenomena.

Edit: the sound pressure level IS cancelled out by destructive wave interference, but if this is knocked even by a matter of milliseconds, the wave is doubled and that's not good for anyone.

Also, on retrospect, phenomena was poor word choice. It's physics.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Wait, what? Doesn’t phase cancellation actually cancel the waves? How can it be inaudible but still present?

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The waves are canceled (i.e. gone) until something goes wrong. You could end up accidentally causing constructive interference, in which case you my double the sound's amplitude.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thankfully double would only be 3db, and 10db is about a doubling by our perception?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Yes - but 3db is twice the energy, which is what matters when it comes to damaging your cochlea

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I feel like this doesn't happen very often though. I mean I wear sound canceling headphones all the time and I've never noticed it accidentally making anything louder. Then again, I don't normally stand near jet engines.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I wouldn't imagine noise cancelling headphones would have the ability to output high enough for serious damage. But some people do experience discomfort and pressure when using noise cancelling headphones for the first time, this could be due to a number of factors though.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

My noise cancelling headphones make wind noise much louder when it's really windy.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, sorry, I didn't phrase that well at all. The sound pressure is actually cancelled out, but with the hypothetical example of the jet engine, anything going wrong could double the dB level instead of cancelling, and because we're talking milliseconds difference, it would be quite easy to go wrong in this sense.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It can't double the dBs. It will only add 3 as dBs are a log scale and +/-3dBs is double/half.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Besides what you mention, I have my reservations about 'crazy revolutionary'. If I remember correctly, noise cancelling only works in one very concentrated spot where the waves are measured and cancelled out. If you move a couple of inches, the cancellation isn't perfect anymore and does practically nothing. That's why ANC headphones work well (always right by your ear) but any other open application seems implausible to me.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Absolutely, this is spot on, but if they can find ways to work around this like with these microphone swarms they're proposing, then there could be a lot more applications for it. Some quite scary.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

You're right. Without a demonstration I don't believe it works. Could be a misunderstanding on the part of the author trying to interpret what the inventors are saying...

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

We can start with cancelling my neighbor’s dog at 6AM and work our way up to jet tarmac zen garden.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wouldn't this system cause more noise for people on other tables around you?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Yes when the path between the noise and the noise canceling is out of phase the sound will be lower when they are in phase it will be amplified. Their canceling speakers will need to be very directional to stop this from happening

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

What if we told you that we can actually silence a noisy table right next to us in a café?

I'd say we almost certainly have different definitions of what 'silence' means.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I can already do that

waves gun

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

*screaming intensifies*

"Whoops, turned it up instead of down, one sec."

BANG

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I’m super sceptical. Someone claims this every year lately and it always turns out to be bullshit.This is like the constant claims of free energy.

Live press conference with demo or it didn’t happen.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If only the PCB was white....

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago

As an autistic person this technology could actually allow me to access the community without being overwhelmed. This is revolutionary and would change my life.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Is it a robot that smacks people when they go above a certain decibel level?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)

They're going to use that technology to spy us isn't?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Given that noise cancellation thus far as involved multiple microphones to identify background noise - yes

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Why does every cool innovation have to have an immediately applicable shitty implication 😭

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why would they do this ? They already do it through your smartphone.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

They're different people.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

This tech isn’t at all needed to spy on you.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I was going to say, wouldn't this require recording of literally every noise around you in order to cancel it out?

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Seems soooo much more complex than simply using regular noise canceling technology which we've had for ages now. In my previous company it was amazing how well it worked. You could be maybe 5 feet away from someone you could hear them perfectly fine, but move 10 feet away and everything was just muted down. One day we had some electrical problems and the system was down, and that's when you really could notice how well the system worked because you could hear people all the way from the other side of the building when before when the system was running those noises were totally gone.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

What you described from your previous workplace sounds amazing, but you must've used phase cancellation too, didn't you?

How is this so much different from what you've used back then?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Most office centers these days pipe in low-dB white noise to mitigate some of the chaotic noises of office work. Unfortunately if you're the kind of person with a neurodivergence that makes you sensitive to sensory overload this could be one of the reasons office spaces make you feel so exhausted 😃

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Saw the thumbnail and thought those were W40K minis and "muting the next table" would be everybody leaving the café as soon as you pull out some awesome orks and a measuring tape.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Read W40K as WD40 and wondered why you'd lubricate people to mute them

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

You're making their smooth talking smooth enough to fly by you

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You mean your awesome T'AU empire mate, small error in the wording

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

That's a funny way to spell Brettonians.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The title is false. They are only microphones where a third party could tune into different conversations happening at a single table. This particular technology isn't there yet to do noise cancelling on a room scale with specific zones.

Researchers plan to eventually make microphone robots that can move around rooms, instead of being limited to tables. The team is also investigating whether the speakers can emit sounds that allow for real-world mute and active zones, so people in different parts of a room can hear different audio. The current study is another step toward science fiction technologies, such as the “cone of silence” in “Get Smart” and “Dune,” the authors write.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

As sounds is simply vibrations through a medium, it would be cool if you could set up some sort of box with a device in each corner where they make some sort of wall that disrupts any sound wave passing through. Like some sort of sci-fi privacy barrier. Might still hear things but wouldn't hear words and whatnot.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

The thing is, we dont generally needed the noisy table muted, we just need it reduced in volume enough at our own table so we are able to carry out a normal conversation

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

What the swarm of microphones that follows people around? That's just to help keep the noise down.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Make robot who would make next table conversations interesting.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The cafes would not want that because guests are expected to leave and make room for new ones after some time. That's also why they crank up the music in these places.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Exactly. The restaurants are being made to be loud on purpose.

Hard surfaces everywhere. Loud music.

I'm tempted to get a decibel meter and threaten to file OSHA complaints.

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