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He'll be the death of us all. (lemmy.world)

submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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It’s not like any candidate was actually good but they did pick the worst one.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So their statement that they don't want the destruction of the Jews, only the destruction of Zionism and Israel, is semantics.

A government is not the people, specially not when it's the government of a colony.

What do you propose?

My opinion is the same as that of the PFLP's book on the subject (again, great read, I suggest you go through it); until the inherently colonial and imperialist "state" of Israel is abolished, the oppression of the Palestinian people will not end.

The Palestinian liberation movement is not a racial movement with aggressive intentions against the Jews. It is not directed against the Jews. Its object is to destroy the state of Israel as a military, political and economic establishment that rests on aggression, expansion and organic connection with imperialist interests in our homeland. It is against Zionism as an aggressive racial movement connected with imperialism, which has exploited the sufferings of the Jews as a stepping stone for the promotion of its interests and the interests of imperialism in this part of the world that possesses rich resources and provides a bridgehead into the countries of Africa and Asia.

The aim of the Palestinian liberation movement is to establish a democratic national state in which both Arabs and Jews will live as citizens with equal rights and obligations and that will constitute an integral part of the progressive democratic Arab national presence living peacefully with all forces of progress in the world.

This isn't their first time occupying that region

That was 1400 years ago. You do realize this doesn't at all justify colonialism in the modern day, right? By this logic, could Chinese Americans and Indian Americans return to China and India and lay claim to those countries?

Even the racist colonizer that founded zionism didn't try to use that as justification, and admitted full well that this is just colonization, as per my previous comment.

I do agree that Israel should pull out of Palestine, but I don't agree that that includes the entire territory of their whole nation.

Again, the entirety of Israel is an irredeemable fascist, imperialist ethnocolony founded on slaughtering natives, has been ethnically cleansing them throughout its entire existence, and is currently committing a genocide. Would you support the existence of Nazi Germany in any way, shape or form? Though it arguably does somewhat live on through modern Germany, seeing as how they're also supporting the ongoing genocide.

Muslims, Jews, and Christians were already living in Palestine before Europe stated colonizing it. Decolonization of the region doesn't necessarily have to mean the displacement of people already living in the colony. It would simply mean the removal of the fascist state and any control that the US and Europe have over it; as long as a separate government exists, these imperialist nations will exploit it. Again, referring to the PFLP:

The aim of the Palestinian liberation movement is to establish a democratic national state in which both Arabs and Jews will live as citizens with equal rights and obligations and that will constitute an integral part of the progressive democratic Arab national presence living peacefully with all forces of progress in the world.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The aim of the Palestinian liberation movement is to establish a democratic national state in which both Arabs and Jews will live as citizens with equal rights and obligations and that will constitute an integral part of the progressive democratic Arab national presence living peacefully with all forces of progress in the world.

That sounds great! That sounds like a solution. Unfortunately it's not a very realistic one, especially since they're a religious extremist group, and I don't imagine their view of democracy to be actual democracy, nor can I imagine them supporting a separation of church and state. If that's the case, then it just results in the same situation, but with the actors swapped, and the Jewish people living under Muslim oppression. Idk about you man, but I feel that the Jews have suffered at the hands of extremist groups enough for one people. But hey, maybe my assumptions are wrong, and they would legitimately establish a free and fair democracy. That would be an amazing resolution to the problem. But since we know it's a multi-national problem, with Europe, the USA, and several Middle Eastern countries all wanting a piece of the pie, it seems very implausible. It's a nice hope though, and I think most actual people would support it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah if your response to that is to keep bringing up their "religion" (the last avenue for liberal internalized racism; as conservatives bring up "culture") of the people currently being slaughtered, you're too far gone.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

It is a huge driving force and a major part of their motivations. You can't ignore it, and raising concerns about it is not racist. It's not even a statement about race, it's about religion. Rather than acknowledging it is a valid concern, you call me a racist? Okay then. I guess the conversation is over. Thanks for sharing your viewpoints though. You did raise valid points, and I felt that we were communicating well, and pretty much in agreement at the end there. Cheers.

Edit: and in case it was somehow unclear, I already stated that I think Israel should be held accountable for their human rights violations, and I think the situation over there is an enormous tragedy.