this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2023
1166 points (93.8% liked)
Memes
45660 readers
1394 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Who's history?
Okay, then explain the difference between scientific and utopian socialism, what what differentiates labor from labor power in the context of surplus labor value extraction?
The low bar there is my fault though, I should have asked if you were educated on what communists believed.
Put a bandaid on a gunshot wound while you're at it.
That has literally happened, can you name any successful socialist revolution that didn't involve education and the creation of mass popular support?
World history.
Russian communism: ~5M dead in the Holodemor
Chinese communism: ~15-55M dead in the Great Famine
Cambodian communism: >1M dead in the Killing Fields
inb4 not real communism
Muh "you can't criticize socialism because you don't understand THEORY". You probably don't understand capitalism either outside of socialist critiques of it. Then how can you be so certain of what capitalists believe?
"I can't help EVERYONE so I'm just not gonna help ANYONE".
*goes off and tries to convince people to follow an ideology that only works if everyone believes in it.
Can you name one socialist revolution that hasn't involved massive amounts of murder and violence?
Even with these inflated numbers, they are no match for the numbers of people intentionally killed by capitalism and feudalism, let alone starvation under capitalism and feudalism.
Plugging the book "late Victorian holocausts"
If you believe the Cambodians were communists, you have to believe that the nazis were. Except in Pol Pots case, he only claimed to be socialist for a few years of their decades long operations. I am choosing you believe you're not that gullible so I must assume you are ignorant of their history.
Literally took years of capitalist economics in high school and college, it is one of the reasons I'm a communist.
More like "the issue is systemic and requires systemic solutions, not charity"
Chinese feudal landlords didn't believe in socialism, that didn't stop the communists from doing land reform.
By definition revolutions involve violence. Are you condemning the capitalist revolutions that threw off the monarchies? The status quo involved comparatively massive amounts of violence then, and it does now.
But also, an example of socialists gaining power through the ballot box was in Chile. The US ended up funding, training, and equipping right wing death squads to kill (and worse) Chilean communists, teachers, trade unionists, indigenous people, and random people. Chile became an extraordinary violent right wing capitalist dictatorship.
I mean, Hitler very clearly wrote in Mein Kampf that he DID take inspiration from socialism, except that, like all other communist dictators before or after him, he thought that HE had found the missing ingredient to make it work.
Hah, imagine getting a "capitalist" education from people who don't have to worry about their own job security because they have tenure. Isn't that just like getting a communist education from a Wall Street CEO?
Yes. The secret ingredient was (and always is) called violence.
Okay, at least you're honest enough to admit that.
Yes, I condemn all violence, capitalist or otherwise. But I honestly don't experience capitalism as particularly violent. My biggest successes all came through non-violent means, by educating myself and improving my technical and people skills. Amazingly, it turns out that if you're willing to learn what others will pay you for, more often than not, they'll actually just hand you money without you having to make any threats about taking over their whole company.
He also very explicitly said that the nazis weren't socialist, and all of the parties policies were hard capitalist.
We live in a capitalist society. Any attempt to claim this isn't capitalism and we have a shift toward actual capitalism is an attempt to sell you fascism.
Also pretty sure most of them were adjuncts.
Yes. When they removed the secret ingredient, the landlords could not maintain their property relations with the peasants. That is correct.
Well then either you're really sheltered or you haven't been paying attention.
Oh, well if it worked for you, I guess those slave laborers can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps. And all those genocide victims should have just spent more time educating themselves.