this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2023
1703 points (96.2% liked)
Memes
45581 readers
1862 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
“I’ve made a machine that does the labor of 10 men!”
“You’re going to still pay the other nine, right?”
…
You’re still going to pay the other nine, right?
So the ten men can all do a tenth of the labor now right?
Oh you're going to fire nine, cut the tenth's pay, and make him work even longer hours, and keep the vast majority of the profits for yourself, got it. That's fine too I guess...
“I’ve ~~made~~ bought a machine that does the labor of 10 men!”
“You’re going to still pay the other nine, right?”
"Why? I bought it to get more of the money to myself. Why would I pay for something and get nothing in return? Why would I just lose money for no reason?"
Seriously though, the dynamics are pretty clear, there's no investment without the expectation for extra profit (even for a state. Invest in a new railroad with the expectation of higher economic activity and therefore more taxes). Otherwise it's just charity
What if the teen men are the ones who own the machine?
That's called a cooperative, they exist. You share both the profits and the risks of the enterprise. Not all enterprises succeed. Also, some of the men need to be the managers, accountants, sales etc. It's not just about the factory workers.
Otherwise, more indirectly, they could be the shareholders of the company. Some companies even use shares as payment for their managers and top employees in order to encourage them to improve the profits of the company.
Otherwise they could just be both the owners and the only people working at a company. If the machine ends up generating lots of profits, they could all ten decide to retire and live off those profits while hiring an eleventh person to operate the machine, or they could reinvest in the company, buy even more machines, hire more people and bring in even more profits, like a complex game of cookie clicker.
Choose the one you prefer and try making it a reality if you want that.
I hope for your sake that when the factory workers can't afford to feed their kids and they drag you from your home and try to beat you to death in front of your family they find that argument compelling.
I'm one of the ten men, I'm just a worker like anyone else here, I can just use the little grey matter I have to try and understand the world and look at it with more objective eyes, instead of killing anyone who disagrees with me.
Fucking fascist pos. If you want to kill families go to Russia or Israel and look at how fun it is.
For more info on how automation works under capitalism, read chapters 15-16 of capital
Chapter 15: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch15.htm
There are a loooot of extra words in there, that seem unnecessary. I've read pages and pages now, and it's just repeating meaningless words without reaching a conclusion. I have no idea what it's trying to convey.
He does spend several pages worth of mobile phone screen just setting up his premises. What meaningless words are you referring to?
I don't have the patience to read 20 pages with no arrival at any conclusion. Is there somewhere I can just read a summary of the conclusions?
Dude needed an algebra lesson or something. He'll write three pages trying to explain an idea that could be expressed in two simple equations.
If you still pay the other 9,why would you even look for a machine though?
Maybe the machine also does it with less waste and more consistently, the same reason woodworkers make jigs for complex cuts or identical parts.
Still investing and taking recurring upkeep costs for something that may or may not yield more income.
You could ask the other 9 to pay for it with you, the other 9 are also owners in a worker co-op.