this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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Where is a good place to start to learn about this conflict. I have no idea who is in the right here.
I understand and appreciate you trying to learn. I think one of the issues why nobody can really point you to a good resource is that there are no 100% neutral resources that document "the conflict". Even just where/when you start something like a timeline can be biased.
Keeping all that in mind I have found a video that gives a short simplified summary of the base history.
https://youtu.be/1wo2TLlMhiw?si=_ANEgker8DzQZQxR
I liked it (might be part of my bias since I like crash course). But I'm sure there are mistakes in there and as above some details/framing might just be due to biases of the author's/presenters etc.
Yeah definitely a problem finding truly unbiased information. I'm paranoid my whole world view is shaped by western rule even though there is more free speech here than anywhere else.. or is that idea also propaganda lol
I will give that a watch when I have some time later thank you.
Tbh this gets you down a very weird rabbit hole, especially if you're in tech. When you start to look at cybersecurity and the direction it's heading, a lot of cutting edge stuff uses a zero trust framework. cybersecurity as a field has realized that information and data is so ubiquitous at this point that it cannot be trusted at all and has to be authenticated and checked at every step. That's real defense in depth there; making sure that every level independently audits the information it uses within the context it needs.
But speaking as someone studying cybersecurity and is getting entrenched in the field & community, once you learn how much you can trust trust you really get a baseline level of paranoia. And to be honest, in my opinion the only thing to do is embrace it. It's difficult and you'll probably want to fuck off and become Amish, but once you see information as just information to be used, consumed, manipulated, and shared as needed the possibilities really open up. The future is only going to be more information and data dependent. Being able to intuitively tap into that is like a super power.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/1wo2TLlMhiw?si=_ANEgker8DzQZQxR
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
If you want a book, 100 Years War on Palestine does an excellent job going over everything up to 2017.
Very in-depth, full picture of everything that's happened from 1917 (what just about everyone considers to be the beginning of the modern conflict), including errors and crimes committed by both sides. The author is Palestinian and obviously not neutral, but is far from extremist, and comes at things with a historical/academic rigor.
There are many other books/resources of course, but at least as far as getting a decent idea of what actually happened thus far, it's a very good history of the conflict, major players and the geopolitics associated.
I think you either mean rigor, or rigeuer, which is short for de rigeuer and more related to fashion rather than academic credibility.
yeah lol edited
How Palestine became colonized
Neither party is in the right. Israel is a violent apartheid state, and Palestine is large ruled by a terrorist organization. Both Israelis and Palestinians have the right to exist, but neither side's leadership respects each other's existence.
The victims in all of this are both the Israeli and Palestinian citizens, so taking a side isn't really a sound option. I am failing to see anyone who aligns as pro-Israel or pro-Palestine make coherent arguments about what happened this week. The only reasonable alignment is to be anti-war, anti-terrorism, and anti-apartheid.
I place some — not uniformly distributed, only on those that do this — blame on the Israeli citizens that knowingly move into a recently captured area. They're literally colonizing the Palestinians land. I don't fuck with colonizers.
I'm curious about how this is done. Do they just kick Palestinians out of their homes or do they make new towns or what exactly happens that is so effective at displacing others?
Iirc they literally just take over some land, forcibly remove or execute anyone who won't leave, and then they move in and start building. Literal colonizer behavior.
Edited with a source:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/8/how-israel-backs-settlers-to-confiscate-palestinian-lands
palestine was there first, Israel is a far right state dedicated to a colonialism of Palestine
Israel is the wrong side.
If you considered nothing that's happened since the beginning, maybe, but a lot has happened since then, including a massacre the other day where peaceful musical festival attendees and civilians in their homes were murdered, raped, and kidnapped.
While I agree that Israel is not the good guy here, it's a bit more nuanced than just that now. Hamas has done lots of atrocities and now it's more of an Everyone Sucks Here situation. Murder and rape of civilians are not okay (and yes, even the murders Israel has done, although I do find the rape and the targets escalates this latest atrocity into something more viscerally horrible).
Not to mention Hamas is also pretty far-right, also desires genocide, they just don't have the power to do it.
Hamas is not even a fraction of the concern that Israel is. Casualties are not even order of magnitudes close. Even the horrific ways in which Israel has tortured and murdered Palestinians is unmatched by Hamas, despite it being a militia rather than an organized army judged by the international community.
Israel has burned children alive, they have officials who bragged about raping and torturing children, they make people destroy their own homes by THEIR OWN HANDS. And this is while Israel has the upper hand, yet it is still the more horrifying of the two by many orders of magnitude. Comparing the two is sickening.
Oh my god that was so fucking funny. Dance near a concentration camp and you deserve to be shot. Literally right on the fence they used to 'keep out the Palestinians'.
although the rape is not something im chill with, thats fucking evil, they deserved to be judged (but not by israelis).
Kidnapping though is completely justified. Hostage exchange is something they want to do to de-escalate the situation. They said that they would only be killed 'one for each dead Palestinian' in any counter-attack. Israel said they didn't care and started to glass Gaza. Israel is far more murderous than the Hamas ever could be.
Just because there is nuance doesn't rob any side of being right.
Goddamn, that's a fucked up take you got there.
what? which part?
They tried nonviolence, and the IDF killed thousands of them for it. Violence is the only option
Wow, you are so stupid. I wish you to be there right now.
I would start shooting as many IDF members as possible
There's an old crash course world history video about it
Edit: Oh someone already linked it.
Honestly, trying to find a definitive 'in the right' of any large-scale conflict is tough, almost moot. Especially since moral values like 'right' and 'wrong' are subjective, and that small groups of powerful people may not represent a whole. Complex reality doesn't fall neatly into these ideals of right and wrong.
Here is all clear.
Righteous Victims by Benny Morris is a pretty good start. It only covers up to around the year 2000 if I remember correctly
Nobody is, and that's the wrong question to ask.
In that case I need to figure out the right question to ask
I mean, yeah, that's the hard part of life.
The one who lives civilian and not murder infants and not spending all money on rockets instead of developing own cities and culture. Oh, and not claiming wrong claims, not deceiving others. They are terrorist, lyers and complete garbage just as Russians and Iranians are right now.
Arabs came to those lands at 600 year while Israely ancestors were there from 10000 b.c.