this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
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United Methodists are no longer cool. They voted against gay marriage. And yes, to be fair, a good number of local congregations were pissed
That seems to be more of a kick-the-can vote to allow the more conservative churches time to leave.
https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2023-07-06/one-in-five-united-methodist-congregations-in-the-us-have-left-the-denomination-over-lgbtq-conflicts
"We only voted against human rights so the people who are against those human rights can leave with all their money and property intact, we promise!"
Man, you're making these "progressive" churches sound wonderful!
Compromises are useful when you want something. When your side is about to win you don't blow up the organization unless you have a mental problem.
Also, from what I can tell the gay bishops voted for the compromise. If they thought it was the right way to handle it, I am not going to shame them for it.
We will see if they make good on it next year.
Exactly. Like when the north was about to win the civil war, Lincoln allowed some slavery to be legal.
Or when the allies were on the brink of victory, they went and allowed some concentraition camps to open again.
Also, folding and voting against human rights to keep your hand on some property doesn't sound like winning to me.
Maybe you meant the Charlie Sheen kind of "winning"?
I will! Fuck them, it was a shit decision, good job appeasing the regressives, well done guys.
The examples listed are examples of violent victories not political ones. Even then, they imply backtracking instead of maintaining the status quo until victory.
This was not a change in policy, it maintained the existing one, so that they could finalize their "divorce" amicably. There is a ton of properties as well as pensions involved. Properties that the UMC technically owns but was paid for by local congregations.
It might be worth noting that those gay bishops that I mentioned aren't actually allowed under current church rules. If they forced the issue and the conservative churches brought them to court instead, there is no telling what the courts would decide. Making deals was likely the smart choice, even if it meant waiting a bit until they start offering gay marriages to their parishioners.
Violent victories over political ideology. If you want to be an apologist for evil don't be surprised when we think you're evil.
Is your reading comprehension so low that you do not realize that I am "apologizing" for gay people who are supporting gay rights?
It makes it sound like you think gay people are evil.
If self awareness was a disease you'd be the healthiest person alive.
You don't even know the definition of apologist, I'll give you a clue, has nothing to do with apologising.
Just to help you out. When an apologist is in action, what are they doing? I will give you a hint. It isn't "apologistizing".
You're too stupid even a dictionary can't save you.
Not that I give a fuck whether the UMC survives, but you are correct. The bigots are leaving the denomination and many/most that left joined the Global Methodist Church.
The only reason that the UMC wasn’t gay as fuck years ago is because the denomination is global and the African churches are bigoted against LGBTQ+. Their votes plus a fifth of USA congregations was enough to guarantee a schism. They’re just being strategic about the breakup because of how property is owned in the denomination.
True, sadly. Though there's been a lot of local defiance of that and in 2024 they're expected to vote on it again.
The local UM congregation in my city has a gay pastor and giant banners up detailing that they are open and affirming. There's a whoooole splinter going on right now.
Some of the conservative nutjobs are breaking off too, but a lot of that is in the US South (and Africa, interestingly; still a lot of homophobia on that continent).
Also should be mentioned that there are two similarly named Presbyterian church denominations and one is cool and the other is VERY not.
Still, all the more reason to not get hung up on labels.
What do you think the point of differing denominations is if not to have modified/different and, as the person you responded to said, more right ideologies?