this post was submitted on 23 Jul 2024
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Pushing people into corners is what good debate is about. If people find their refutations are weak enough to have them back into a corner, then they should abandon that argument.
I grew up on a farm in the south of New Zealand. My brothers were dairy farmers, my front yard was cattle, I was a staunch anti-vegan who swore he'd never eat vegetarian as long as he lived.
I will never care because meat tastes good. Except now I do.
There is no level of regulation that permits - in good moral conscience - the subjugation and slaughter of animals for our pleasure.
Meat is only easily accessible because it is heavily subsidized by the government. A vegan diet is nearly always cheaper - consider that most developing nations eat vegan/vegetarian because of this.
There's a short book I read that absolutely convinced me of veganism called "This is Vegan Propaganda and Other Lies The Meat Industry Tells You". I've had 5 people read it, and ALL FIVE have gone vegan. It's straight up insane how brutal a grip the meat industry has on people, through lobbying, ad campaigns, purposeful obfuscation of the industry. Bananas!
i shouldve known i was getting into this before i decided to make that witty comment that came to my mind on a whim
i agree that the meat industry is a disaster, and i wish there was a proper compromise that could suit everyone. many people in the us simply dont care or have this moral consciousness in the first place because, again, meat tastes good
the solution in reality is to somehow get people eating less meats as we tackle the major issues we face today. making a burger that tastes identical to a traditional burger is not easy and it is as it stands now much more expensive anywhere you go, which isnt changing without baby steps
going out to eat in rural ny with a budget, my options that i can afford dont include vegan anything barring a side salad. im not giving up what nice things i can go out and enjoy until theres more options. call me selfish idrc, i have enough to deal with as it stands. not going to give up something that does make me happy like going out to eat with family to prove a point to an industry that doesnt even know i exist
not proofreading this or anything so if i come to reword anything i said thats womp womp for me ig. thats where i stand muting this thread now
"Meat tastes good" as an argument for immoral actions is not valid logic. "Sex feels good" is not valid justification for sexual assault. "Men taste good" is not justification for Jeffrey Dahmer.
"Let's eat less meat". Again, there is no valid moral argument for "just a little bit of sexual assault". "Only a wee bit of animal abuse", "only occasional racism". A moral wrong is a moral wrong. But hey at least it isn't "I'd go vegan, but I just love cheese!". Well then go vegan but eat cheese.
As for rural NY, I'd use Happycow.net to find places. I've eaten vegan in rural Bali, rural NZ, rural Australia, rural England, and never paid more than my meat eating counterparts. But if that's still a concern, then eat vegan at home, meat when going out.
Although I'd still argue that "it's more convenient for me commit sexual assault than to hire a sex worker" isn't a valid justification.
Seriously if you get the option, read that book I recommended, even just the first chapter. I can buy you a copy of you like, DM me an email address and I'll gift a copy. If you read it, I will genuinely send you PayPal money for a vegan dinner in rural NY. I've taken everyone else who read the book out to dinner, it's only fair you get a free one!
tip if you want to be an activist for something, don't compare something the opposing party is doing to sexual assault. you and i both know that isn't a valid comparison
Cows are forcibly impregnated in perpetuity by humans, separated from their children and then had their milk taken so we can drink it. As soon as the cow can longer be impregnated and becomes unprofitable, it is killed for meat.
If a man sticks his fist in the vagina of a cow for fun, it is sexual animal abuse. If a man sticks his fist in the vagina of a cow, hoping to later kill and eat it's flesh, it's lunch.
I think a comparison is valid. Just because you are a willing participant and enabler in this animal sexual exploitation does not invalidate or soften the facts.