naevaTheRat

What did they say then? What are the implications? what are they arguing against?

Ummm. Are you serious?

That's what a farm is. They're saying we should keep farming them or else they would go extinct and that would be worse than continuing to farm them.

Wait you're saying it's better to be genetically experimented on, caged, forced to breed, and be killed in your early adulthood than not have children?

That's it's actually more ethical to make a creature who you later kill for your own pleasure than not to do that? because the alternative is only wild cows and cowlike creatures existing?

They're living beings, not museum exhibits ffs. Species don't have preferences, individuals do.

otoh depressive realism is a thing.

For example about a trillion probable sentients are killed every year mostly for pleasure and if you can contextualise numbers at all that rends your heart.

So genocide is the key word. A lot of conquest did not involve the displacement or extermination of entire peoples until colonialism.

Conquering a place was largely "so you pay tax to me now" prior to colonialism, at which point it became more "so you are subhuman and need to be exterminated or bread of of existence"

Colonialism is definitely a unique sort of evil. If you don't think that I'm sceptical that you're particularly broadly read.

The scale of atrocities committed is just beyond comparison, like the most hardcore genocide in ancient times (that we have evidence of) was against a single city. In colonialism we are talking about continents.

I think we should let people say what they mean themselves if we want to understand each other.

So firstly that is a non sequitur. Either we are talking about whether the sacrifice demanded is unethically steep or we are talking whether the initiative is ineffective.

Lets put that aside though, just making a note this is a separate point to explore.

I would first ask what you mean by voting quality. Could you explain?

Are you talking about feeling too tired to spend 20 minutes voting 3 times every 4 years or cutting out your own heart to give to someone?

Cause in the the latter case I agree and in the former I say buck up mate, we live in a society and that means doing stuff for people when we don't always feel like it.

Yeah we do have single member seats in the lower house though which is a completely broken system.

Most of Europe recognises that, our frienemies across the ditch recognise that.

Consensus seeking and coalitions are much more representative forms of government than single member winner takes all seats.

Yeah that doesn't mean we're running on an alien projector. Science communication of theoretical physics is horrible.

Anytime you find yourself getting excited about some galaxy brain SciFi stuff just clap out some chalk board erasers and inhale the dust. That's about how pleasant and exciting theoretical physics is (and how worth doing, fight me you keyboard tapping nerds) and it should help you get in the mood for appreciating findings.