this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2023
1501 points (98.1% liked)

Piracy: ꜱᴀɪʟ ᴛʜᴇ ʜɪɢʜ ꜱᴇᴀꜱ

55056 readers
166 users here now

⚓ Dedicated to the discussion of digital piracy, including ethical problems and legal advancements.

Rules • Full Version

1. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy

2. Don't request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote

3. Don't request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs

4. Don't submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others



Loot, Pillage, & Plunder

📜 c/Piracy Wiki (Community Edition):


💰 Please help cover server costs.

Ko-Fi Liberapay
Ko-fi Liberapay

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

They could have easily crammed the Steam Deck full of stuff to make it hard to use for piracy - locking down everything, making it usable only to play games you legitimately own, force you to go through who knows what hoops in order to play games on it. That's what Nintendo or Apple or most other companies do.

But they didn't, because they realized they didn't have to. It's 100% possible to put pirated games on the Steam Deck - in fact, it's as easy as it could reasonably be. You copy it over, you wire it up to Steam, if it's a non-Linux game you set it up with Proton or whatever else you want to use to run it, bam. You can now run it in Steam just as easily as a normal Steam game (usually.) If you want something similar to cloud saves you can even set up SyncThing for that.

But all of that is a lot of work, and after all that you still don't have automatic updates, and some games won't run this way for one reason or another even though they'll run if you own them (usually, I assume, because of Steam Deck specific tweaks or install stuff that are only used when you're running them on the Deck via the normal method.) Some of this you can work around but it's even more hoops.

Whereas if you own a game it's just push a button and play. They made legitimately owning a game more convenient than piracy, and they did it without relying on DRM or anything that restricts or annoys legitimate users at all - even if a game has a DRM-free GOG version, owning it on Steam will still make it easier to play on the Steam Deck.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 295 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

The steam deck is how you prevent piracy. If you look at the huge influx of streaming services, you'll see an example of how you encourage piracy. I recently dropped three of my services in favor of one pirate site that has almost everything. They even offer a subscription tier and I've considered it. I'm willing to pay for good content. What I'm not willing to do is pay dozens of middlemen across multiple companies to rip off the people who actually make my favorite shows and then memory hole the shows a few months after they premiere.

[–] [email protected] 80 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Recently got a switch. Digital games are same price as physical, locked to my account/switch and saves don't move easily between devices. Steam deck, I can play on any hardware that can support it TV, PC laptop games cloud save for free. I can play online games for free. I know that games I buy today will be available in 10 years on my next PC. I only buy carts for the switch cause they give me more flexibility still not even the same as steam.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (8 children)

I very rarely backup game saves but only the thought of being locked to a console puts me off. I can't possibly invest 100+ hours in a Pokemon game and lose everything of the battery dies, screen breaks, console is forgotten on a bus or stolen, and so on.

load more comments (8 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

memory hole

sick turn of phrase, i'm stealing that

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Please read 1984. That's where this term comes from. You're living through a combination of it and Brave New World.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But in this universe, people willingly pay money for Big Brother to watch them.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 199 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think steam in general is a proof that its a service issue

[–] [email protected] 93 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Valve is one of those companies that I genuinely believe makes a strong argument for ethical capitalism being possible. Sure, they have some shitty things, but overall they do treat developers and customers reasonably well, they provide hardware and software that is easy to use and non-abusive (not filled with spyware and data harvesters, doesn't use advertising, is well maintained, etc.). If we could obliterate all of the other major conglomerates and replace them with people/companies that understand that you don't have to be a massive pile of shit to make money the world would be better off.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Valve is not publicly owned, I don't think you can equate commerce to Capitalism.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Commerce conducted in a capitalist economy is inherently capitalist. Being publicly traded is not strictly required, though it might be the most common form of corporate structure under capitalism. Individuals, partnerships, privately-held and publicly-traded companies can all own capital. Valve's assets are not owned by a government, its business decisions are made privately and it operates in a free market. Those three factors are pretty much the definition of capitalism.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (12 children)

Valve argued in court that you do not own any title in your library and that they are a subscription based service. That's not very ethical.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (12 children)

Is that not true though? As much as we hate it, until you get given some transferrable proof of ownership of the game (like an NFT) and ability to play without being tied to one service, it's the unfortunate reality of online game services.

It's easy to go buy a physical game but when it's online, you don't own anything - yet

load more comments (12 replies)
load more comments (11 replies)
[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Its really just because Gabe is the dude.

It would devolve of he died.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'm not convinced that Valve will go down the tubes when Gabe shuffles off this moral coil (praise gaben may he live a thousand years). It would require a strong company culture that believes as he does that piracy is a service issue and is thus willing to adhere to his vision in his absence, but that can happen in a privately held company if there's a strong succession plan in place.

Now, if Gabe dies and Valve goes public, then it's pretty much over. Platform monetization, proft-taking and short-term thinking would enshittify Steam in short order.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It’s funny. I’m dirt poor and I really want to play The Last of Us again. I could easily download it and get it going through piracy. Heck, it’s crossed my mind a time or two.

But you know what I’m doing? I’m waiting for it to go on sale and I’ll grab it then if the time is right. If not I’ll wait until it is.

I have plenty to do until then.

It’s definitely a service issue. I haven’t pirated a single game on Steam Deck.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

dude just pirate the game and pay when it is on sale. gabe will aprove because he hasn't fixed the "i have no money" issue.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 129 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (22 children)

Don't even need Steam deck. The Steam store has put an end to my pirate life over a decade ago.

On multiple occasions, I have found myself rather wait for sale and bought a game on Steam, than receive it for free on Epic store.

I put every single games that I have ever pirated in Steam's wishlist (if it's available). Then slowly buying them one by one when they goes on sale. I'm not rich by any means and it's the least I can do.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (13 children)

It mostly stopped piracy for me, but occasionally I'll want to try a game but not want to support the company, or try a game I know I'll hate just to see what they did.

I also pirated Starfield, which I technically had access to through GamePass, but it couldn't be modded. (I also ended up hating it too.) I'll probably be canceling GamePass though since I've switched to 100% Linux since then, and Windows has made it impossible to use with Linux.

load more comments (13 replies)
load more comments (21 replies)
[–] [email protected] 119 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The deck has made me more likely to buy a game on steam because of how easy it is.

[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Seamlessly syncing game saves between my Deck and my primary gaming PC is so nice. Before I travel I just make sure to wake up the deck long enough to get updates and sync saves.

For non steam games I use syncthing but that always requires just a little bit of work.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I would love to see a chart with my steam purchases over the years. There would be a huge spike up as soon as my deck arrived.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 81 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I actually bought some games on Steam I already owned on other launchers because while I could set them up via Lutris or the like just hitting "Play" is so much easier it's unreal. Valve is doing so much to make Linux game as comfortable as possible I don't even remotely consider buying from anyone else because there it's a pain in the ass just to get the game running once, never mind keeping it running through updates

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not to mention keeping game saves in sync. I’m experimenting with syncthing for my pirated games, but I have to admit that just getting the Steam version sounds much more sensible now that I’ve my Steam deck.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 67 points 1 year ago

This was already proven at the height of Netflix, before streaming service hell.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Speaking of services, I wonder how much piracy would go down if Netflix and Disney Plus and such would let you rent a film or episode at £0.50-£2 at a time for 24 hours, like how Google Play used to let you. That way if you don't own one of the subscriptions, you can still watch by paying pocket change. Or watch unlimited by paying the monthly fee.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago

That's why film piracy slowed for a while there - when people weren't being gouged they were happy to pay what they felt was reasonable. But now that the gouging is back... yo ho ho.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I just hope that steam stays good. it's great now, but I fear for the future with everything behind steam DRM

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Let's just hope for Gabe to live a long life still. Valve is a private company and not nearly as much in danger for enshittification as a public company would be.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Funny how we've just accepted that any publicly traded company has to become shit and take no action about it

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago

For a publicly traded company the people who buy their products are not the customers for whom to create value.

Shareholders are the real customers.

People who buy the products become a resource to extract value from.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's interesting you mention Apple because while I have every expectation that you're correct at the moment, the iPod absolutely benefited from piracy. iTunes allowed you to add your own songs to your library to sync with the device, and iTunes could also be argued to have been on a similar model to Steam because you'd pay to 'own' the songs and there was no subscription giving you access to songs.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Then they started to remove songs you own, and songs from your hard drive that iTunes had nothing to do with it... Fucking apple cultists. You really never see any fault in your chosen god?

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago

Well, I stopped pirating games a long ago because of steam, because of how good it was/is as a service and low prices. I don't think any game publisher should cry about steam prices, because when the AAA game is just released and for a full price, millions of FOMOs run to buy it. And I can wait and see if it's worth it.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

they did it without relying on DRM

Steam itself has some kind of DRM. You need to login to Steam to access the games you bought (sure there's offline mode but then you can't download your games, update or buy more, so it's only temporary convenience). If Steam dies one day, so will your Steam games library.
However, the service is great, so it's not annoying.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (11 children)

That is absolutely not correct.

Steam policy is if valve shuts it down, they'll give you enough time to download all the games and run them without drm.

load more comments (10 replies)
load more comments (9 replies)
[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Right, not to mention they also giving back to community by proposing game friendly changes on kernel AFAIK.

If just most games wold run on Linux out of box at least same as on Windows, i can imagine there would be shift in market share.
One of the reason is needless bloat of Windows so even my for-noobs-distro idles around 0% CPU and less the 1gb memory without doing almost any tweaking but Win10/11 constantly sends calls home and idles on 4-6GB of rams. Other thing is how lightning fast linux can be.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Also they contribute loads to the Linux ecosystem so im happy to support them as I see it as a win/win . The sales are great too I spend like 50 ducats a year and get like 9 or 10 great games for that.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago

I literally stopped playing my pirated copy of Spider-Man Remastered to play an official copy on the Steam Deck because it was on sale.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I was playing MegaMan Battle Neckwork and Tony Hawks pro Skater using emu deck for almost a year.

When both dropped on Steam I bought both. Unfortunately MegaMan Battle Network requires Internet to run so I reverted back to the emulators.

Tony Hawk is a wonderful port however.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (13 children)

I pirated Need for Speed Most Wanted (2005) and played it from start to finish on my Steam Deck because it was impossible to buy. I would've paid $20 for that old ass game if it was available for sale, but it was literally impossible.

The problem is that these giant publishers are led by MBAs, and as someone who went to business school, I know first hand how stupid those people are.

load more comments (13 replies)
[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In my personal life, I run Linux on all my devices and I would never invest in non-opensource technology for my career. (Work forces me to run macOS, but that's another story).

For years now, I happily and only buy games on Steam, even if I have the choice between Steam and NoDRM. Simply because Steam just works(TM) and is convenient. (Of course one never buys games on steam with a forced additional starter from Ubisoft etc.).

Steam is really great from a technically POV, from a giving back to the community point and from a customer friendliness point (never had a problem with a return).

I even bought a SteamDeck although I am no big fan of handhelds, and for what it is, it is great.

I'll happily waste more money on my Steam backlog of shame. ;-)

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I really like steam but I don't use it exclusively and I wouldn't recommend doing so.

I shop around and I own many games on GOG in particular, which is DRM free and also convenient in its own way. They provide installers for games so your library is truly independent, and I have used Lutris and Minigalaxy to get those games running on Linux (with Proton) including on the Deck

Steam is great but it is basically DRM and not the be all and end all of gaming. Competition is good for everyone and I will generally try and buy from GOG if the price is the same or even if it's slightly higher because I truly own my game data. That has a value in itself.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I wouldn't necessarily say the best proof (that's probably things like Spotify and Google Music, services which effectively killed any and all MP3 sharing).

But yeah, the Steam Deck is an awesome platform. It's great to be able to carry games with you that you normally wouldn't be able to play portable. It's also an awesomely capable device for playing ROMS though, if you do decide to sail some seas :D

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Not to say that Steam doesn't have some tremendous issues on this front (it does), but I truly wish more companies understood this. If you let me play / listen / watch your thing on whatever device I choose, for a reasonable one-time price, in perpetuity, I will pay that price.

Ten bucks for a Witcher season? Sure. A fiver for the latest season of Glup Shitto's Starred War Adventure? Yeah, I'm in. I'm not gonna pay $180 a year to five different companies each to watch six or seven new maybe great but probably mid TV shows.

Same goes for games. I'm not paying $80 plus a $40 battle pass every year to play Call of Duty 2: 3: War Crimes Boogaloo, Part 5. I'm just gonna steal your shit. I will not feel bad about it in the slightest.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Interesting take, for sure. I agree to some point. I also think Gabe just knows the audience, and he knows how much people would have rebelled against the very idea of this device if it came from Steam (not Valve), and excluded users. This would have been a completely failed product had the initial reviews been something like "Just a Switch knockoff".

Instead, this has garnered Steam as a platform with an entire group of adoring fans, some of whom used to be critics. I guarantee they added a ton of business to Steam as a platform just because a lot of users would buy, say, GTA5 on Steam again during a sale for $9 versus jumping through the tiny hoops to make a bootleg copy run.

They did a fantastic job in parallelism getting Proton to an easy to use product (for free, mind you), and reinventing the portable PC game. Many may not know that was an entire segment of handheld PC devices on the market for years before Deck hit, and Steam's team hit all the right spots to completely blow them away, and not only make them irrelevant, but also lure in new adoptees to Steam as a platform. Brilliant execution and moves.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›