Nokia 3310
Privacy
A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
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- If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
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much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
Also, I don't think I can trust android,
Yes. Google's framework service seems to be spyware.
so I would have to install Graphene OS or the like.
GrapheneOS does seem to be the best way to address the privacy concerns with Android. There's also LineageOS and others.
In the case, app support would be lacking, though.
Uh...Android is the single most popular operating system in the history of operating systems. The app support is quite good.
If you mean because many apps require Google Farmwork Services, and GrapheneOS replaces it - I find that to be a largely solved problem. The GrapheneOS neutered rebuild of Google Framework Services now fools most apps into working.
It's been years since I encountered an app that actually couldn't run on GrapheneOS, unless the app was aggressively trying to spy on me.
The remaining issue tends to be bank and credit union apps, which aggressively spy on their users "for security". I work around this by using my credit union's mobile website, instead. It has all of the same features without the spying, anyway.
shift
My old phone is on its last leg, but I'm holding out for a Huawei or VIVO with HarmonyNextOS. I so want to end everything Google.
Out of the options you mentioned, Pixel with a custom rom (GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, etc.) is probably the best bet. Seconded by any Samsung that could run a custom rom, though I agree with others here that the hardware is better on the Pixels. Plus they have extra security hardware features that will be better. Of course, if things are weird with your telecom, that might effect things (trust me, been there with an Ubuntu Touch phone before.)
Another option you could look at depending on where you are is Murena's phones. They have a bunch of options pre-flashed with their de-Googled rom /e/ os. Not my favorite rom, but still not bad! And of course those can be flashed with another rom if you want as well!
I owned 4 Samsungs: S8, S10e, S22 and S24 Ultra. Their products got worse. An example is the recent One Ui 7 update, it is just terrible: My notification area that works perfectly fine before, is now changed; my battery life got worse..etc.
Even if I ignore the update, Samsung products are just not great anymore. Remember when a Galaxy can take really great photos? Those days are gone. My S24 Ultra takes the worst pictures in comparison to a Xiaomi or Huawei. Heck, even the controversial Asus Zenfone 10 takes better picture. Sure the Galaxy has better Megapixels, but the AI bullshit makes it so the colors are all wrong.
With that said, you want to go for Pixel + GrapheneOS. Anything that is close to stock Android should be ok. Oh, and stay away from anything with a lot of AI.
If you swipe down on the notifs twice, you can edit them to be similar to the previous style.
On topic of your post, fuuuuck everything about their forcing AI, but my biggest gripe is how they moved the audio display (from, like, Spotify or audiobook readers/podcast apps) to the bottom of the lock screen as a tiny bar on the bottom instead of showing me all the info as it did before. It's super annoying when I swipe to unlock and pause what I'm listening to.
yeh the other day I accidentally swiped down and touched the Media section. It automatically played my music, eventhough the music app was off lol. Luckily it didnt play any "videos"...
Pinephone. It is what I use.
I am considering iPhone as well, since it has “reputation” of being secure.
Which doesn't mean private.
Pixel+Graphene is a common suggestion.
For real privacy you can't beat these.
I've been rocking a Pixel 8 pro with Graphene OS for a year and change and it was a great experience after being an iPhone user for 8 years aproximately.
The install process is great, automatic and foolproof, you just need the phone, usb cable (probably came with your phone) and a computer with a Chromium-based browser.
App support hasn't been a problem for me, you can reach for Aurora Store (anonymous Play Store client) if you really need something from there. Otherwise you have F-droid and the usual suspects and also Accrescent, which Graphene offers through its own app store, but barely has anything as of today.
I setup Shelter to have some apps more isolated and being able to just not see them if I want, namely some Microsoft apps I need for work and some that depend o Google's services. Shelter is recommended by privacyguides.org, so you should be fine using it.
I think Pixel/Graphene is probably your best option for security if you need it. Privacy I guess you can achieve many other ways.
- Pixel, and immediately install GrapheneOS.
- A Linux based phone, like the PinePhone or Purism 5, and run your Android apps (if desired) inside Waydroid.
- Pixel, and immediately install GrapheneOS.
I am surprised Google still allows to open the bootloader, with all the bitching they have been doing towards sideloading apps, play integrity BS and making android more similar to iOS in general terms...
Googles devices have always been able to have custom ROMs, I even had a Nexus 2 long ago and that was moddable.
Yeah, but you need to concede that their efforts to block "unofficial" users have strengthened as of lately... That's why I think they might do a Xiaomi move sooner or later.
I didn't realize that Purism phones don't have internationally compatible modems. As someone who travels a lot, that's unfortunately a dealbreaker.
best choice for privacy [...] “reputation” of being secure
Disentangling privacy and security, and potentially other priorities, e.g. secrecy, anonymity, etc might be important before making suggestion.
Another way to help deciding what is the best choice for you, not necessarily anybody else, is what is your threat model?
An analogy I thought recently is "Are you putting a very tough lock on your door but leaving the windows opened?" or "Are you locking your car but walking outside naked?". The point here is not to imply that people do obvious mistakes but rather that, truly there are people who go to parades naked AND lock their cars. The concerns can be orthogonal and thus must be considered individually. For that I believe thinking about "who the enemy is" as a way to discover your threat model is interesting, namely :
Are you worried by :
- government getting your private data without your consent?
- government doing so automatically and cheaply through intermediaries e.g. platforms?
- government doing so via extremely costly individual security attacks e.g. 0-days, with a "legit" hacker manually doing it?
- small private companies?
- platforms?
- your actual neighbor?
The answer to those questions will then provide you a more limited set of options. Basically I would argue only the 3rd option ties tightly with security but that's up to a certain extent and companies like Pegasus shows that it can also be done at scale, for profit. Still, AFAICT it wasn't done for a random person BUT that was few years ago.
Anyway one you go through options, e.g. iPhone vs Android vs deGoogled Android vs Linux phone vs dumb phone you will see your usage itself will have to change. This is not necessarily a bad thing but it is not something most people will think about initially.
I suggest then to... try. I know it's not the answer you want but what you are asking for, I believe, is genuine change. It is about the technology, yes, but it also is about your habits. Consequently it is a process with some success, failures, cascading changes and thus IMHO must be iterated on.
It is worth it though.
Please note: You must buy the "Unlocked - Works with any carrier" version of the Pixel via Googles website (or from a reputable source that ensures it is/was not carrier locked). Anything else will have a permanently locked boot loader and no way to install Graphene.
Depends on the carrier and the specific deal. I have a Pixel 7 Pro from T-Mobile. And it was able to be unlocked after one year of service in good standing. T-Mobile has traditionally been pretty good about that, though that kind of thing often shifts once companies have major mergers. And the Sprint merger screwed them up in a lot of ways that are still working their way down to customers losing services and features.
Using a Pixel 6 with Graphene here with google services in their sandbox. It's pretty neat, especially with apps like Firefox+uBlock and GrayJay, which let me also block 99% of ads, which was very important to me. I have not had trouble with any banking apps either.
In my opinion, the Google Pixel with GrapheneOS is considered the gold standard in terms of security and privacy. While I am not fully knowledgeable about its capabilities, it offers a comprehensive suite of security features.
The iPhone is also a viable option. You can easily swap between iCloud to a more secure encrypted provider for both cloud storage and photo backups. Additionally, any notes application can be replaced with a more secure alternative.
Samsung phones can support a range of operating system images that can be flashed, including LineageOS. However, I am not fully aware of all the available options.
Just to let you know, GrapheneOS uses AOSP (the base Android system) and sandboxed Google Play Services, making it compatible with 90% of all Android applications. From what I've heard (don't take my word for it), the apps that have the least compatibility / more breakage are banking ones.
The banking app thing is unfortunate, but then I kinda realized that I don't really need them anyway. I have all the features I need in browser, and text notifications set up for when I spend money.
The wallet not working REALLY sucks, but if I look on the bright side that's one less thing Google knows about me and my spending.
I think you're mixing privacy with security, iPhone is secure but it's not private, it's slighty more private than Google Android but not what would you call private.
Samsung can soft brick your phone so basically backdoor.
Google Pixel with custom ROM like GrapheneOS or CalyxOS is considered to be best in terms of privacy.
Another cheaper alternative if you don't want to give money to Google or spend too much is Motorola G32, G42, G52 with CalyxOS but to unlock bootloader you have to make account on their website.
Not advice, just an anecdote I switched to grapheme (pixel 8a) not long ago and its really great I haven't even been tempted to go back. I think its a great choice