At a time when they could actually be pushing the Manifest issue and try to finally get a foothold, instead it feels like they have scattered rakes around the yard in the middle of the night and decided to go for a jog.
this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2025
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it's not like anyone who cares hasn't pulled up stakes tbh
Doing some digging, this is what has been added to the privacy notice:
You have the option to use a third-party AI chatbot of your choice to help you with things like summarizing what you’re reading, writing and brainstorming ideas, subject to that provider’s terms of use and privacy notice.
If you choose to enable a chatbot in the sidebar and/or through a shortcut, Mozilla does not have access to your conversations or the underlying content you input into the selected chatbot. We do collect technical and interaction data on how this feature is used to help improve Firefox, such as how often each third-party chatbot provider is chosen, how often suggested prompts are used, and the length of selected text.
In other words, there will be opt-in LLM functionality that can be tied to third party providers. When you submit information to them... they have that data... the data falls under their privacy policies, not Mozilla's.
on to duck duck go?
that's effectively be a more low-level reskin of whatever browser engine your system bundles, which would be chromium's on non-apple systems
The DuckDuckGo browser and search engine have been free to use since day one. We make money from privacy-respecting ads, not by exploiting your data. When you search for “car” we show you a car ad — it's that simple.
i fw that tbh
Besides the privacy issue, the TOU is ridiculous. They supply a tool (the browser) and you use it. It's not a collaboration between you and them. You can use it whatever way you want.
Mozilla ai really isn't that great stop getting caught in the wave. We don't want another dogshit ai company we want a Foss promoting web browser
Get ready for ads as well
They removed this:
{
"@type": "Question",
"name": "Does Firefox sell your personal data?",
"acceptedAnswer": {
"@type": "Answer",
"text": "Nope. Never have, never will. And we protect you from many of the advertisers who do. Firefox products are designed to protect your privacy. That’s a promise. "
}
},
I hate that they had "never will" in there. Seems like a broken promise.
They broke a promise and they broke my heart 💔💔💔
Dat want seem like it, it IS
i still like mozilla (and I donate to them monthly because i believe in the mission of an open internet) and, unlike most people, i don't think this is a very big deal.
however, i don't want to put all my eggs in one basket so... are there any other ethical pro open internet evangelist groups i should start to follow or contribute to? preferably an ethical foundation that isn't cryptofash or bigoted. i know there's the eff but they're not really focused on an open and free internet, they're more privacy (nothing against them; i love them).
bonus if they're not hq'd in the us.
You might not be using functions that require data to work. Are you using the AI options? Image to text? Translation? Saving passwords? Using search suggestions? Then you don't need to send any data.
Like it or not, most browsers do most of those things now. FireFox is no exception.
This seems like a lot of smoke and no fire to me.
Even writing a post, you're entering data through Firefox into the post box. We just don't consider that data. It would be pretty quiet around here if you couldn't do that...
Are you even remotely aware how browsers work? Mozilla doesn't need to collect the information typed into your post box in order to serve the website.
Maximum wrongness on your part.
This is the original text that everyone flipped out about (OP: "WHY DO YOU NEED MY DATA TO MAKE FIREFOX WORK???"):
When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox.
It has since been changed to:
You give Mozilla the rights necessary to operate Firefox. This includes processing your data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice. It also includes a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license for the purpose of doing as you request with the content you input in Firefox. This does not give Mozilla any ownership in that content.
Use. When you input a url, that information is used to resolve an IP then fetch a webpage. You're granting a right to complete tasks you assign using information you input. They have permission to send your post content to a server, but they don't own that content. This should be very obvious in the revised text.
Just quoting the recent changes in their ToS doesn't prove your previous claim that was completely unrelated to this.
Mozilla doesn't need to collect your data in order to server pages in Firefox. Firefox operates on the client. Data collection is not necessary in order to server the decentralized web. It has never been. Like when I curl a webpage through the Linux terminal I automatically sell my soul to Linus Torvalds?
My original claim was that, in addition to gedaliyah's points, the TOS gives them permission to perform basic browser tasks. My last comment was about the same thing. The TOS is relevant because 1) it's the basis of this entire discussion and 2) the changes in the TOS conclusively prove my original claim.
As to "data collection" in this context, those words do not appear in the TOS and are not rights Mozilla is asserting for use of their software. It's a fiction you invented. That was the point of me pointing out the use of the word "use" -- describing that term and distinguishing its meaning from the thing you made up.
Well shoot if Firefox goes I guess we’re back to carrier pigeons and smoke signals.
How about Orion?
Or just make NetSurf good enough?
NetSurf updates are very slow
NetSurf needs more developers, which is one of the reasons for the development pace, and I'm happy for every occasion to help them get more, so here's today's one.
(Mature software needs fewer updates than fresh software too, but that's probably not the most critical aspect here.)
I have really high hopes that Ladybird picks up the slack
Or make NetSurf good enough? It's mature (and lacking developers), Ladybird is not.
So wtf happened at Mozilla for this 180 degree course change? This literally goed against everything it was supposed to stand for
went
Uh huh, that is called a typo with auto correct on top of it
Alternatively...
There is the part where you interact with Forefox. Without your data, it just won't work. They need your timezone, your screen size,... I mean, that's for every browser around, even the most hardened system. This data can be used for fingerprinting so you should be aware and you should agree upon that usage or quit the internet.
i.e. using a browser is sending data towards that browser.
What a whole lot of bloated bullshit. This isn't clearer at all.
Time to switch to the Mullvad browser!
Please pardon my ignorance on the matter, how does Mullvad compare to Brave?
The Mullvad browser is based on the gecko engine while Brave is based on chromium.
I dont trust Brave much because the ceo Brendan Eich is into right-wing politics and bitcoin.
An alternative browser (not based on the Chromium) should be driven by the community (vide Proton).
WHY DO YOU NEED MY DATA TO MAKE FIREFOX WORK???
They don't care about your actual data, they care about how Firefox is used. That's an incredible important piece of information every developer needs to know.
How else do you get to know, what's working right and what doesn't? How do you plan development for the next years if you don't know what to develop?
This is about throwing millions of $ at the right thing. If you miss you are fucked.
If data can be abused it will be abused.
You use your own software and read bug reports.
That only gives you a biased and incomplete insight.
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