/e/OS Is Better Than Android. You Should Try It : technology

[–] [email protected] 148 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

/e/OS is android lol. Yes it's better than the version of android that ships with phones by default, but grapheneos is still way better than e/os (even though they're all android)

[–] [email protected] 59 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (15 children)

We need hardware requirements so that not just pixel phones can get grapheneOS. Giving into Google hardware to escape Google software is a step I don't want to take. I'll take calyxOS or divestOS until then.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 7 months ago (1 children)

We need hardware requirements so that not just pixel phones can get grapheneOS.

GOS has strict hardware requirements to increase security that currently only Pixels meet. They won't, and shouldn't, compromise their standards which would give you a weaker OS. Want GOS on other vendors? Convince those vendors to up their hardware game.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Yes, hardware requirements for Android need to be higher. That's the only way you get other manufacturers.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Unfortunately the fact that NFC can't be used on anything that's rooted anymore is kind of a deal breaker. If I could use google pay and my normal banking apps with GrapheneOS I would switch to it today.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 7 months ago

Unfortunately the fact that NFC can't be used on anything that's rooted anymore is kind of a deal breaker.

NFC can be used on GOS, and they frown on rooting.

If I could use google pay and my normal banking apps with GrapheneOS I would switch to it today.

It's due to PlayIntegrity API wanting a "Google certified OS," which is ironically less secure than hardware attestation that GOS supports. I doubt Google would change their model, but your bank might. Some banks do support GOS, and they have changed at the request of their customers before. Send them the GOS documentation and you might get lucky.

https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide

[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago (3 children)

not being able to use contactless pay does not equal "NFC can't be used on anything".

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Sorry, I don't understand the motivation here, you want to not let Google spy on you via their OS, but are perfectly happy to give them your entire payment record?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Not my entire payment record but certainly everything I use my phone to pay for. I'm willing to give Google some of my info as long as I'm in control of what info I'm giving them. Everything I do on my phone is too much. If a 3rd party offered a NFC payment app I'd happily use that over GPay, but until that exists GPay is the only option. Ultimately GPay is safer than using actual credit cards because it's more resistant to skimming. The extra security outweighs the loss of privacy in this specific case. I'm not happy about that but there doesn't seem to be a better alternative at this time.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You know that if someone skims your card and makes a fraudulent purchase, you will likely be able to get your money back, right?

What do you think will happen if someone exploits a 0-day in GPay to do this? How could your bank know the purchase was fraudulent? At least with a card it is obvious that this can happen.

If you care about "secure" payments that much, why not use cash?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You know that if someone skims your card and makes a fraudulent purchase, you will likely be able to get your money back, right?

Sure but it's a major pain in the ass. Every time it happens I have to cancel my current cards, request a new one, find all the services I'm currently paying with the now cancelled card and update them to a different card while I wait for the replacement, and then maybe remember to swap them back when the new card shows up. It doesn't happen constantly but if I use cards to pay they seem to get skimmed about once every year or two.

What do you think will happen if someone exploits a 0-day in GPay to do this? How could your bank know the purchase was fraudulent? At least with a card it is obvious that this can happen.

Literally never happened before, but same way they know a credit charge is fraudulent, I tell them. Also if someone found a 0-day in GPay I wouldn't be the only one complaining of fraudulent charges, they'd be flooded with complaints.

If you care about "secure" payments that much, why not use cash?

Because that's a pain in the ass. I don't care about "secure" payments, I care about not having to spend days dealing with the aftermath of it. Paying with cash means I need to constantly go to ATMs to withdraw money, and if I'm doing that my odds of getting my card skimmed actually go up so it doesn't even protect my from that.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Banking apps work, at least mine do. NFC works.

Only tap to pay doesn't work.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago

Been using GrapheneOS for close to 2 years, love it. Not perfect, but it's solid & does everything I need well enough. Even with the minor bugs, it's a hell of a lot better than having Google's or any other vendor's proprietary bloatware stuck on there.

I would say you should use GrapheneOS first, if you don't have a Pixel, use DivestOS, if you can't use that, use /e/. That's the order I would put them in for security and privacy.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Not only is it still Android but the thing that the article says is special about it, blocking trackers and stuff, is trivial to do without installing a custom OS image. Change your DNS, trackers/ads gone.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Almost every paragraph is it's own, self-sufficient, malignant cancer. How did this even get published?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago

AI: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

Even the name is a marketing turd

[–] [email protected] 37 points 7 months ago (22 children)

Iirc E/OS is based on Lineage, but takes a horrifying long time to patch in security updates on top of Lineage's already somewhat laggy patches. If you choose to use it make sure you're aware of that going in.

Also, like IIGxC said it's a android. Maybe slightly more private that most stock versions on most phones. But that's like saying [insert Linux distro] is better than Linux.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Ultimately the real solution to a lot of these problems is likely to be a Linux phone OS. It's something being actively worked on, but it's still only half baked and I wouldn't recommend anyone daily drive a Linux phone. Maybe in a few more years it will reach a state where it's actually usable.

One thing that would help a lot is if some company stepped up to provide a platform agnostic NFC payment solution that worked on both iOS and Android. As far as I'm aware if you want NFC payment you have exactly one choice depending on your OS, and both Apple and Google brick NFC if you root your device.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I really want to use my PinePhone Pro, but it's been in a box since the week I bought it.

I thought I was going to start hacking around, but then I didn't have the time. It has everything I want from a phone, except for software.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I like /e/OS, but the app lounge bothers me a lot. There is no uninstall button and it is not possible to add Fdroid repos... So I have Fdroid installed in addition to it.

I do not see an added value as if I had the aurora store installed + Fdroid.

IMO, the best addition of e/OS compared to lineage is clearly the tracker /ad blocker app.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Unless it has changed the app lounge is just a different frontend for Aurora store.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

It has a confidentiality notation system based on exodus privacy. It makes it more visible than on the aurora store. It has the possibility to install app from fdroid, well, at least from the main repo as it is not possible to add more.

There is a high chance that they forked the aurora store, as, most (if not all) of their app are based on open source app. (but if so... why did they remove the option to uninstall app...).

Their app "maps" is just magic earth with an other name and icon.

edit : phrasing

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (5 children)

I think the greatest hindrance to /e/ is the fact that so few devices are supported. The article lists Fairphone as a supported device but that doesn't retail in my country. Most Chinese OEMs (that form the bulk in my nation) won't be supported by it. I have had a Nokia and a Samsung but even those two models are nope. One would need to go with the express purpose of installing alternative OS's and then purchase supported phones like Pixel probably, if they wanna indulge in this. But normal people aren't gonna do this. They are going to purchase the phone that fits the price vs performance ratio for them rather than alternative OS criterion.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

so few devices are supported >?<

I don't agree with that, take a look at this:

Officially supported devices and the list of unofficial /e/ builds part1 and part2 (those might not be working as good as official builds)

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I would definitely try it, but all the phones I've been looking at recently don't have any support whatsoever for any of those types of custom OS's. No Lineage, no anything. All because they're not flagship models and are more budget friendly phones (and have what I'm looking for: headphone jack and SD slot).

[+] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (9 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago (10 children)

[ confirmation bias at play. you have switched to bluetooth. it meets or exceeds all your needs. you don't see much public indication to the contrary. you figure bluetooth is the best. ]

simplicity the cable just works. no configuration. no pairing .un pairing, figuring why it worked yesterday
Audio quality - bluetooth is lossy. we just were given AptX lossless in 2021 ( another confirmation bias ) "Sounds great to me" "I can't hear the difference".
2 things are both possibly true though: I can't hear the difference. Other people hear a big difference. this seems impossible to some people. As if their senses are the apogee of human sense.
lag. new codecs lower latency, but lag lag lag. You couldn't possibly use your device as a synth/music instrument and 'play' the lag is far to great. Same with games.
whats the big deal. This is a bias for the plug users - would it hurt to keep it? we've always had it. The work is already done. Its already baked in the cake, why you gotta take it out?
Investment - I have really good headphones. I have really good earbuds. Yes there are adapters but they are finicky exactly when you want them to just work. They inevitably break. They often downgrade the sound - I have 3 usb to audio adapters for android that all hiss for no reason.

The issue is that when the marketers are selling us a 'clean vision of the future' they purposefully gloss over the things they are taking away. Then they paint the people who feel pain because of the change as neanderthals who wouldn't know better if it bit them. When they do know better. They had better (for them) and progress made it worse (for them). To which the marketers generally say - you should be someone else.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Just wait until you find out some of us still want FM on our phones.

The thing with SD cards is that there's a crapton of phones with 64/128 internals and still don't have one. I for one wouldn't really need one if I had 512, but to get to 512 you usually hace to pay a huge premium, because all major manufacturers have adopted the apple model of upcharging for storage. And frankly in the age of affordable 1tb SD cards I should't have to pay hundreds to get a measly 256 or 512 gb of storage.

The jack is also a manufactured problem ( also pioneered by apple, iirc ). Why would I give up my existing wired headphones to replace them with expensive sub-standard battery operated ones. Its especially ironic for manufacturers who do a lot of greenwashing. The usb-c adapter is an ok compromise though, and I for one am coming around to that l because you can only find jacks on niche or crap phones these days.

I'm not sure why you brought the "tech is old" argument because frankly it doesn't make sense for these two.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

FM on a phone is a banger. I used to have an old Nokia with a FM transmitter as well.

To be honest, the FM transmitter was more reliable and easier to set up on a random car with no aux than Bluetooth was.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

SD cards are awesome, because a high quality 256GB SD card costs about $30, while a 256GB memory upgrade is at least $100 with no option to transfer when you get a new phone.

Cloud storage is pretty expensive and only as fast as your internet speed is, so for a lot of people that is not really that feasible. Especially considering that some have data caps as well.

3.5mm jack is just more comfortable to use for a lot of people, especially when they have multiple source devices and want to switch between them. I have BT headphones and it is way easier and more reliable to just replug the wire than to go through the BT disconnect reconnect dance.

The issue with dongles is that you'll have to find the correct aux dongle, some phones support analog passthrough, others require active dongles and so on

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (12 children)

I can't speak to the sd card situation but I still prefer a headphone jack over Bluetooth. I would argue that the vast majority of people (as you put it) use Bluetooth headphones simply because they were forced into it.

Bluetooth is neat and all but it's also super old (28 years!). It's older than smart phones and sd cards. But age aside, it's also not reliable. You cannot guarantee it will work everytime you need it. Whereas you could reasonably expect a headphone jack to work everytime. So replacing old reliable with old not-reliable doesn't seem right from a logical perspective.

My only other concern is convenience. But wired and wireless both have pros and cons and I just consider them more or less equal.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Bluetooth also introduces significant latency (noticeable for gaming) and lower audio quality. What a bad deal.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I love /e/OS, but it's not better. I've had a lot of issues ranging from GPS being inaccurate, MMS not working, and most annoyingly : the play store alternative works (app lounge) works 1% of the time..

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Which version and phone are you on ? I'm on "t" version on a Oneplus 7 et I have none of these issues.

I first installed the "s" version and got annoying bugs, then switched to the "t" one and everything was OK. I now all the version aren't available on every devices, I hope you can switch on a more stable one.

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