Oh no. Another thing to learn.
this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
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you probably don't need to learn it, Deno was a massive upgrade over Node and it didn't matter, not convinced this will be any different.
IMO, deno's approach was bad as it was reinventing the wheel, so one had to relearn. And then they brought package.json which they said they wouldn't. This again got people to unlearn and relearn things.
Bun, on the other hand, acts like what Typescript is to Javascript. It's just feels like superset of Node, instead of completely different tool.
I expect Bun will get more success than Deno.
Makes sense. Deno was created by the same person that created node. They’re both going to be terrible, especially when they ignore everything ever discovered in software engineering about writing good code, good frameworks, good languages, etc.
deno was also created by one of the guys who created node.
huh? that's what I said.
sorry, brainfart. I read "bun is created as the same who created node" 🤦🏻♂️
gotcha. I don't think bun is created by the same person that created node. deno is, and has just as bad a design as node as a result. it honestly baffling that people trust someone to write a language who failed so badly to write a language that they set back the entire world for decades to come.
idk I think people can learn from their mistakes and evolve. especially if they accept collaboration and RFCs.
I haven't worked much with deno, so I can't tell. But I earn my living with Node and it's ok. I still hate js more than node itself.
idk I think people can learn from their mistakes and evolve. especially if they accept collaboration and RFCs.
I haven't worked much with deno, so I can't tell. But I earn my living with Node and it's ok. I dislike js way more than node itself.
I guess all the hate is around module resolution and package management.
It's almost 100% compatible with node but faster. A lot faster. So no need to learn anything but few cli commands. For example bun run dev instead of npm run dev.
Edit: website
Alias npm bun level compatibility?
Bun is designed as a drop-in replacement for Node.js
It does seem so!
I'm trying to get my work to switch to bun but we have packages in a private AWS codeartifact repo. Does it support this? I tried to use it with our npmrc file but it couldn't install those packages.
This is the first I've heard of this. Might be worth checking out.
God my thoughts exactly. Probably super cool, but still I just can't keep up
Compatible with node
This will be last 🥲
My favorite pastime is arguing about which JavaScript runtime is faster while I wait for my app to finish running O(n^n) table scans of my database.
This will generate lots of fun moments when developers use Bun and the runtime environment is stuck at Node for some reason. For instance, because of AWS Lambda.
I'm pretty sure someone will make a custom layer.
Can't you deploy Docker images to Lambda now? Granted, startup times will probably be slower than native Node.
The owner of bun is a dick hole, I hope it fades as fast as deno did
Can you provide some context? Googled oven/Jarred Sumner a bit but only got the usual startup VC trash communication and lackluster interviews...
They deleted their tweet (or I can’t find it because I refuse to sign into Twitter on my phone) but when oven first started hiring they were extremely condescending towards the idea of work life balance. It’s a startup perpetuating the idea that startup employees need to cut themselves off from their lives and focus on work for minimal benefits - you know, until it “takes off”.
It caused quite a stir when it was posted, I’m surprised it’s so forgotten now.
Oh I will never forget.
Thanks. Much appreciated.
Why did deno fade?
Deno is still around and is even actively used, you have to use it if you want to write a Supabase edge function, for example. But it's not used in mainstream development from what I can tell, it just never took off because it's a very large idea shift from Node that requires a decent sized learning curve to figure out. The benefits are also not enough that it's worth re-learning how to write server-side JavaScript. If you wanna write server-side JavaScript, Node is good enough that it's not worth re-learning.
Still though, Deno is fairly obscure from a mainstream development perspective, and that's what I wish on Bun.
Didn't deno endup having to incorporate many if the things Node has that they were initially against?
To add, edge functions (powered by deno) are one of the bigger pain points of supabase. At least that's my own practical experience and the experience of quite a few others on their github (discussions and issues).
In my current project, I started of optimistically ("Should be doable, they say you feel right at home coming from nodejs!"), tried rewriting some existing nodejs code and use edge functions just like your average nodejs powered serverless functions.
But in the end, things just didn't work out:
- deno's
cryptomodule just wasn't up to scratch yet re nodejs compatibility (for my rather humble needs) - supabase uses
--no-npmflag re its use of "deno deploy runtime", which meansnode:specifiers for imports aren't supported - the fact that unlike for serverless functions, which update their runtime only once you yourself trigger a new deployment (e.g. nodejs on vercel), "deno deploy runtime" is continously being updated to latest version, which to me still feels pretty strange for production use, considering how serverless functions handle runtime updates.
In the end I changed my architecture yet again, moved most of the code to an expressjs backend and only use edge functions as a kind of "tender" proxy layer with minimal dependencies (mostly just deno and some esm.sh imports; e.g. supabase-js).
Don't get me wrong, supabase overall is a great thing and they do many things well! I'm still using them going forward. But edge functions just have the potential for being such a pain point in a project and many have already wished for also having the option for "classic" serverless functions.
Yeah, I really wish they’d gone a different way, it’s rough. I think they went the way they did because of the control they have over the run time environment, the ability to disable so much like writing to disk through flags makes it really easy for them to “trust” the edge functions, but man deno is rough.
I'm looking at it with optimism for a new build tool. I just need Sass/CSS compilation and I'll give it a whirl.
It's on the roadmap