this post was submitted on 11 Sep 2023
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It makes much more sense to put the chargers in places where you park your car: At home, at parking lots and at work.
Gas stations. No.
These are fast chargers to top-off for extended trips.
Those places make a lot more sense than what the US is doing, which is putting its long distance fast chargers in weird ass parking lots that lack access to a restroom, convenient store, food, or even a bucket with a window squeegee.
Edit: I guess I didn't leave this when I left reddit. This is completely factual. How many of you down voters have actually used a super charger?
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Ha! That is the opposite of the truth.
Aside from the fact that not all of them are at gas stations, they're almost always very near to them.
IME, there's always a place to go to the bathroom and purchase something. Plus, lots of them will offer you discounts while you're charging.
Maybe things are different in Germany, which is what this article is about.
My experience is of Telsa’s network in California. Which is home turf for the North America’s best EV network. Telsa is pretty good at putting superchargers near fast food and drug stores, but it’s kind of inconsistent. Some might not be near a public bathroom, and some might not be near a gas station if you want wiper fluid, air, or a squeegee.
Charger vendors are clearly trying to put chargers by places where people can get coffee and take a shit. I don’t see why people are so opposed to putting them in or right next to gas stations. That would be super convenient as long as it’s not a crowded station that can’t accommodate cars staying for a bit longer.
I'm amazed at all the Americans here who have never even been outside Germany and their assumptions on what the average German gas station looks like.
You would think nearly all Americans have been outside Germany, probably for the majority of their lives even.
Now that's a Fun Fact.
As a non-Tesla EV owner, the one supercharger I've been to that accepted non-Teslas was out in a rural spot where there was one shop that was closed when I got there.
All the other chargers I've been to are stuffed in random parking lots. There's often something within a 15 minute walk, but that's completely random. It's obvious no real attempt was made to cater to charging vehicles.
We're now starting to get sites with more chargers, and they are being set up as convenient rest stops with food and other services available. But those are still few and far between.
Teal deer; your personal experience is not universal.
Is a gas station not a convenient rest stop? It’s got fresh(ish) food, restrooms, and snacks.
They usually don't have anywhere to sit down out of the weather. They're not designed for people to be there, you're intended to buy stuff and get out. So they aren't great as a half hour charging stop.
Your car is out of the weather, right??? What are you on about?
DC fast chargers. Not level 2 240v chargers.
Next, what a shit article.
You need infrastructure for fast charging so that people can travel long distances.
It takes several hours to charge my car at home. I do that twice a week or so.
That's too long when I go on a trip long enough where you'd need to get gas . If I go to the supercharger, it's 25 minutes every four hours or so. That's just the opposite of a problem for me.
The only remaining problem for me is that there's not more fast DC chargers.
I'd really like to take my EV camping, but the places where I like to go camping are far from any fast charging and don't have RV plugs. A regular 120v/15A wall plug overnight would resolve the issue, but I just can't guarantee that one's available.
That's the only "range anxiety" I have. On a daily basis, I just never have to worry about running out of juice. It's just full all the time.
It's like a phone. I charge it every night (I don't even do that for the EV). The only problem is if I'm traveling, and cars and planes have charging for me.
Once there's more infrastructure, it's just no problem.
Fast chargers at sizeable gas stations make sense. Sheetz has already been putting them in at some larger locations.
My favorite are the chargers at buc-ees. Get to buy some beef jerky and a bbq sandwich while charging.
QuikTrip has been installing EV chargers for years now, but they also offer a lot more amenities for long stays so they're in a position of strength.
Sheets hasn't Tesla has been installing them at places like Sheetz.
Anyway, it looks like the NACS is winning the standards war, so everyone will benefit from their early investment.
It probably just depends on the location then cause I charged my ev6 at 2 different Sheetz on a trip I had a couple weeks ago.
Not just Tesla and not just NACS. Other charging networks using CCS are going into Sheetz as well. I know I always stop at two Electrify America Sheetz locations on the PA turnpike whenever I drive it.
While I'm sure Electrify America is doing the same thing as Tesla (installing electric "gas stations" at regular gas stations, because it's an obvious place to put them), I've only seen one ccs charger in my life.
I've never actually seen anyone use it, and it's frequently got tape around it.
I take that tape as "it's broken" but I don't care to check on it.
A Tesla driver probably wouldn't have any great need to see a CCS charger, just like a non-Tesla diver has little reason to go to a Tesla supercharger. They're around, though. EA seems to like putting chargers in Sheetz and Walmart. Chargepoint is less predictable as to where you'll find them. They do seen broken more often than they should be (usually seems to be a computer/software issue), though, I'll give you that.
a whole bunch of companies are adopting the tesla charger design.
Nissan, Honda, Ford, GM, MB, Volvo already confirmed and more coming.
None of them have cars on the road using NACS yet , though.
no doubt, but it seems pretty obvious that it's the next step.
For now, sure. Car makers want to support the connector that has the most chargers out there. The competition won't go away, though. Most seem to agree that CCS2 is a superior connector to both CCS1 and NACS. What it amounts to is that EV owners will just have to have adapters in their car. Tesla's move to NACS at least makes that possible (as the connectors will at least all share a communication protocol, as far as I understand).
ironically, they will have the "American" and "European" models since CCS is the EU standard
Already the case. Such is the "fun" of having the Imperial system in the US.
In much of the rural US gas stations are a "one stop" - gas, groceries and often a restaurant. It would be a no brainier to add charging to those.
Places you can spend time at. Restaurants, coffee shops, even fast food, the mall, etc.
Work. The answer is always work. Eke out a little more profit while people recharge.
If you're taking a road trip, charging at work won't help you.
Oh c'mon everyone hangs out at the local gas station!
To your point, mandate public places not a relic of a dying industry.
I'm not even supposed to be here today!
Ok, I know that wasn't a gas station, but it felt like it fit.
Something is afoot at the Circle K
At home either you’re responsible on your own or your landlord is, in fact in Germany many people rent. Here there is a law already: if requested, the landlord has to install an EV charger. In many parking lots of businesses at least where I live chargers already exist. I don’t know if this is another law or if it just works in that field.
True that not all gas stations have a lot of parking but most on the middle of the road, not in town, do have + other services.
This is a infrastructure problem. This is a near-term win to put these in gas stations where power infrastructure already exists or can exist. Massive power infrastructure doesn’t work quickly, it will take time but ultimately you’re correct to push for parking locations.
So you can't own an EV if you live in an apartment? Hmmm...
Last I checked, most apartments have parking lots.
And electricity.
Of course you can, and IMO, you should be able to charge it at home, in parking lots and at work.
The current German government isn't famous for their well-thought-out decisions.
There is a difference between bad policy and unpopular policy. If each party caters to their target audience there are two others the policy is unpopular with. Blatantly bad policy is rare. Interestingly the current opposition had the same intention when they were in charge. But now they have to cater to their right wing audience.
Subsidizing foreign mega corps to make (not even develop) chips in Germany with €3M per job while the local infrastructure is inferior to other countries is not just unpopular. It's objectively stupid policy and a waste of taxpayer money.
in what way is it "objectively bad policy?"
no, please tell me how domestically producing chips is bad. remember 2021 when entire factories had to shut down because we couldn't import those very same controller chips due to a single ship getting stuck? i sure as hell do. No, I think it's incredibly important to make sure that a third of our economy isn't killed just because china want to play ball right now.
and our infer structure in what? roads/rail? we are one of the best. the only nations with better rail service are all those who have a Rail trunk instead of a network.
or maybe you mean internet. well, that is getting expanded under the current government, after years of CDU led governments being completely apathetic to this problem.
and we're finally addressing the cost of power being so high outside Bavaria by no longer subsidizing them.