this post was submitted on 31 Mar 2024
1441 points (95.9% liked)
Memes
45655 readers
2491 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
"Christians"
No True Scotsman
Never fails, Christians (ostensibly """"real"""" ones lol) always go to this, such a convenient out for rancid, unserious, responsibility denying dingdongs
If I call myself a Scotsman, despite not meeting the definition of a Scotsman (never been to Scotland, have no Scottish heritage) then it would be fair to call me not a "True Scotsman."
If the definition of "Christian" is "someone who follows the teachings of Jesus" then someone who spreads hate does not meet that definition.
If the definition of "Christian" is "anyone who calls themselves a Christian" then the definition is so broad it is useless as a descriptor. It includes someone who is loving and caring, and someone who abuses and murders anyone they disagree with. It tells you nothing about the individual or how they behave.
If that’s your definition then there are no Christians.
Dolly Parton
I don’t think Dolly Parton hates her family.
Ok, so you're going with the word is useless as a descriptor.
No, I’m saying that christians are people who claim to be christian.
As I said, useless as a descriptor. By that definition the word "Christian" includes someone who donates time to charities, as well as someone who spreads hate about immigrants, wants them sent back to their own countries, and wants to bomb those countries.
The word "Christian" could be applied to a person that wants to take away a woman's right to medical care, and to a person that is pro-choice.
Hell, the word "Christian" could apply to someone who has never set foot inside a church, has never seen a Bible, and has no idea what's even in it, as long as they "claim they are a Christian."
By that definition if I tell you someone is a Christian it doesn't tell you if that person loves Trans people or hates them. As I said, a useless descriptor.
Incredibly convenient thing for "polite Christians" (read: enablers) to say while the overwhelmingly powerful structure borne of their freely given money, time, and prejudices ruins the country.
Replace the word "Christian" with "American" and your statement is just as valid.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition
https://youtu.be/VlUCZh7cSyg
Why is this getting upvoted? OP is using irony. The No True Scotsman fallacy requires refuting a counterexample as well as "The modification is signalled by the use of non-substantive rhetoric such as "true", "pure", "genuine", "authentic", "real", etc." Check out the "Occurrence" section.
Because there are people who really don't like how right wing conservative Christians behave, but also for some reason hate when other Christians agree that the behaviour is unacceptable and call them out on it.
You're not calling out shit. You're refusing any responsibility by claiming they're not even really Christian. They are, and until you admit that, nobody gives a fuck about your claims to the contrary. Christians can be shit, that doesn't make them not Christian you absolute dingus. If you'd actually read the Bible you'd know that slavery and homophobia and sexism are as fundamentally Christian as any love thy neighbor shit
Republicans: Act in hateful ways
Guy: "That behavior is contrary to the book you claim to follow"
Everyone: cheers
Christian: "I agree!"
You: "nO tRuE sCoTsMaN!!!!1!"
???
You suck at telling stories like this lmao, you're the one no true scotsmaning shitty Christians to try and avoid any flak for being associated with them. Legit this comment is utterly incomprehensible, tf is your point? Who's guy? Who's everyone? I assure you far from everyone thinks that republicans aren't real Christians
Let me simplify it for you:
The argument that everyone who claims to be a Christian is a Christian, and also every Christian belongs to the same group and is responsible for the actions of everyone who claims to be a Christian, is patently absurd.
You can have two people with wildly different beliefs, but if they both use the label Christian somehow they are both responsible for the actions of each other.
Those people also call themselves Christian tho, and probably call you a fake Christian. That's a big thing in Christianity, insisting that your brand of it is the only valid one. Yall are silly as hell, admit that there are shitty christians or accept that we don't give a shit about your half ass condemnations of shitty christians
Okay: there are shitty Christians.
Now what? Do I now have permission to call out their shitty behaviour and not somehow be responsible for it myself?
You can and absolutely should call them out. You can call them fake Christians if you want I guess, but that's not really calling them out, it's clear you're just saying it to make yourself look better. No matter what your take on them is, I know for a fact that they're Christian, and you trying to cut them off from yourself like that just makes me think you're a lot closer to them than you're letting on. I can hardly think of any times I've seen Muslims deny that the Taliban are real Muslims, or Jews deny that zionists are real Jews. Why is it so hard for Christians to do the same?
Okay, so we agree that if someone says "This behaviour is not in line with the teaching of Christianity" then someone responding with just the words "No True Scotsman" is stupid, useless, and contrary to the point?
"You trying to say your beliefs are not they same as their beliefs makes me think..... you have the same beliefs"? How does that logic hold up? Someone directly saying "They are not representative of what I believe" means they ARE representative somehow?
Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/16hpv7s/comment/k0h6q7z/
Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/comments/18j3yfz/not_a_real_jew/
Their behavior isn't in line with your brand of Christianity, it very much is in line with theirs. Just because you think you and your church are the only actual Christians doesn't make that the case.
"How does that logic hold up?" If you really didn't like them, you'd just denounce them, straight up. You wouldn't be so desperate to make sure we know that not only are they shitty, but you specifically have nothing to do with them in any way. You're both Christian, this is a fact that you can't weasel your way out of no matter how badly you wish you could. Continuing to pretend otherwise turns your denouncement into hollow self praise.
If you don't have anything new to contribute besides flapping your arms harder about how they're not really Christian, I'm done replying. I hope you get better at actually, meaningfully opposing the evil parts of your religion instead of simply distancing yourself from them
And here I thought we were making progress when you said
Don't know why you're suddenly walking that back.
In what way is "They're not Christians" not a denouncement, straight up? It is literally, directly saying, "How they behave does not reflect what I understand Christianity to be in any way." How can a Christians denounce their behaviour more than by saying "I don't consider them to be Christian"?
Denounce: verb
publicly declare to be wrong or evil.
Publicly saying "They call themselves Christians and they are wrong" is the dictionary definition of denouncement.
What is the definition of Christian? If it's "anyone who claims to be Christian" then the definition is so broad as to be completely meaningless. "You're both Christian" is just as relevant as saying "your both American." So unless every American is responsible for the shitty behaviour of any other American, it makes no sense for every person who calls themselves a Christian to be responsible for the shitty behaviour of anyone else who calls themselves a Christian.
People are literally publicly saying "I do not agree with any of their beliefs or behaviours", what more would you have them say?
Damn that sounds like they are Christian, but you know, I guess they're "not true Christians" because they happen to do everything on Saturday instead of Sunday, or don't wash the feet of the poor, or something else that caused a schism 200 years ago.
Jesus: Love thy neighbour
These people: act in ways that is the opposite of loving their neighbour
Sure as fuck sounds like they aren't following the teaching of Jesus. Going to a church doesn't make someone a Christian any more than going to my garage makes me a mechanic.
Weird. None of that actually mentions Jeeeeeeesus or the things he supposedly said and did.
Weird how all the hate comes from things the apparent Son of God didn't do, but they chose to believe in those things instead.
It's like they're hypocrites. False shepards.
Fake Christians.
This staunch denial of any responsibility for other shitty Christians is why nobody likes or respects you. Do something about other hateful Christians, don't just fucking deny that they exist. Pathetic
Lol, because I'm a Christian. Good spot, Sherlock.
I definitely don't consider all theists basically non-sentient.
Oh, so you're just a troll who wants to piss everyone off. You were kinda doing an OK job, but now it's way too obvious. I hope this shit gets tired for you some day💖
Sure bro. Because there aren't atheists who have noticed the discrepancy between the messaging in the Gospel, the rest of the Bible, and what parts bigots love to point to and what they love to ignore, and they can't possibly think some kinds of theists are worse than others
Ya clown.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman