this post was submitted on 11 Sep 2023
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They're saying you should blame Israel for that, not random people trying to find out who's who
Why not blame both? Why should they be trying to find out who's who. If you found out someone was Turkish, would you immediately ask them if they supported Erdogan? If someone was Hungarian, would you try to find out if they supported Orban?
I don't know if you're an American, but how would you like it if, every time you met a non-American, you would have to announce that you don't support Trump because they're trying to "find out who's who?"
As an American, Trump is the first thing many of my European friends talk about
Yes, but do you have to justify yourself with half the Europeans you meet that you're not one of the Trump supporters?
During his presidency, yes. On a related note, when I would speak to someone in the UK during Boris Johnson, he would be careful to inject a bit of "Boris Johnson sucks, Brexit was dumb" to make his stance clear.
Related, they sometimes assume I not only own a gun, but I'm armed at all times like some old west cowboy, depending on how little they deal with Americans day to day.
Oh, so not for your entire life. Seems like it's a little different then.
Got any more goalposts you'd like to move?
How did I move the goalposts? I said from the beginning that it's happened my whole life. If anything, the guy who talked about a few years of inconvenience is the one who moved the goalposts.
If you can't see how you moved them, I can't help you.
Well, of course I didn't have to clarify I wasn't a supporter of President Trump while he wasn't President....
I pretty much have to be prepared for assumptions about any dubious American move in the global stage, and America makes a lot of dubious moves.
If you want something to justify yourself about for life, I have one:
"America is a continent with plenty of different countries, why do you people from the USA call yourselves 'American' like you owned the whole continent?"
The use of "American" to designate residents of the United States dates back to a time when there were no other countries on the continent. If you lived on the American continent in the 1700s, you were either Indian, or an English, French, or Spanish colonist (or a slave). In the 1770s, 13 of these colonies rebelled and formed their own union. It wasn't really a country though, since each had its own money, laws, and government. To differentiate them from colonial citizens, Europeans called them Americans. Most Americans thought of themselves as citizens of their state (Virginians, New Yorkers, etc.), and in fact it wasn't until after the Civil War that they began referring to the United States as a singular entity, rather than a plural.
Your description of America as a single continent with "plenty of different countries" betrays a very Afro-Eurasia-centric view of the western hemisphere. Unless you can point out Wisonson on a map, or tell me what the Federal Republic of Central America was, maybe keep your eastern hemisphere judgements to yourself.
That description of American Colonists is exactly why there was a rebellion.
The English treated the colonists like second-class citizens, going so far as to try to get Ben Franklin to answer for things like the Tea Party, while he was in England, and a Loyalist.
The simplistic "rebelled over taxation" is just a representation of how the Crown and European Brits viewed and treated the colonists.
Colonists didn't quit Britain, the Briton's quit on the Colonists.
And therefore, lies my point: you will find a lot of people whom you'll have to copy&paste that justification for. For life. 😉
Bonus: also beware of referring to the USA as "the United States", less you bring forth the wrath of someone from the "Mexican United States".
I've worked with folks from around the world (including Central and South Americans), some can be touchy about it. Had to tell them "sorry, I, as an American, don't define these terms. Blame Europeans, not me".
"US", "America", "Americans" all have specific denotations... per EMEA, and hell, even Canadians.
It's like nicknames - if you have one, you didn't choose it. It was earned or applied by someone else.
Yeah... I learned Spanish in Mexico as a wee lad, the folk living North of there were called "Gringos" or "Yankees". Back in Europe, behind the iron curtain, it was "Americaniard" or "Yank", rarely "American"... even when people meant no disrespect.
Then in Spain... (@[email protected], you may want to see this)... "American" refers to any citizen of the whole continent... even the official dictionary itself, in it's latest update, actually states:
https://www.rae.es/dpd/Estados%20Unidos
So yeah, kind of like nicknames... but then some places have different rules about the nicknames. 😉
(...and then there are the actually vulgar despective nicknames, which I won't get into here)
Oh that's cool to hear about. Neat!
Touché
There weren't many Indians on the American continent in the 1700s. They were busy getting oppressed by other British colonists back in India at that time.
Right, but my point is that there never has been a time in my life where someone hasn't equated Jew and Israeli. I've had to defend myself against that since I was a teenager and that was the 1990s. And if people blame all Americans for the crimes of what is actually a minority of those Americans, then they shouldn't do that either.
Yes. Europeans tend to think Americans get the government we vote for and that we must like Trump since he was the president and isn't going away. It's ignorant, but I understand that they have this notion and I will, out of compassion and tolerance, explain that I am not a deranged bootlicking reactionary and do not support forever war, Christian nationalism or corporate hegemony.
Half? No.
Closer to 98%.
Europeans are just as jingoistic as anyone else. And just as ignorant.
This is already the case.
Isn't that how it works anyway?
Person A: "I am a [whatever]"
Person B: "What do you think of [some thing about "whatever" I've recently seen on TV, and is possibly the only thing I know about it]?"
Yeah, except in the case of Jews, it's "prove you're not a Zionist." So many times in my life. So many times. I have to prove I'm not a bad person because of something I can't control and was born as.
This might be very idiosyncratic to how you engage with people or with whom. I've lived in the deep Midwest and in an east coast major city. My name is EXTREMELY jewish. I have literally never had to explain my position on Israel or zionism when introducing myself. If Israel comes up in conversation in one way or another? Sure, people have asked what my opinion is, as a Jewish person, on Israel or such and such events, but that's pretty reasonable and I don't think ever frontloaded with anything.
What can I tell you, other than to avoid the kind of people who take something about you, and turn it into an attack. Also don't bring up the topic yourself unless you want to defend it, and —however hard it is— try to "not attribute to malice, that which is simple ignorance".
There are also some rhetoric tricks you can use to return an attack, but you risk being perceived as a troublemaker.
Yea, that's on the asswipe saying that. We get to meet them everywhere.