this post was submitted on 23 Mar 2024
464 points (89.5% liked)
Technology
59148 readers
2533 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Thanks. I was about to post that I haven’t yet decided whether to donate to my instance or the developers. I might just go with your opinion
Edit: although after reading, I’m not entirely sure. Part of supporting freedom to discuss is also supporting freedom to discuss things you disagree with or even things that are genuinely hateful. I do tend to end up more on the free speech side than the cancel side. The posted thread from archive at least the complainant moved on: we need to be able to vote with our feet like that
Lemmy.ml is the devs instance, and they have a habit of banning anyone who even slightly differs from their opinions. Basically, if you're not a tankie like them, they will likely ban you.
They're not interested in free discussions.
But they just personally don't want that on their instance while they create the lemmy software that allows for everyone to speak their opinions.
They have an extremely low bar for censorship, and I have already seen signs that they will abuse their role to keep their finger on the scale. For example, they selectively federate mod logs, and seem to be running a custom build which allows them to do this. What other forms of fediverse trust are they willing to compromise for ideological purity?
Do you have any evidence for this, or are you just looking at mod logs across instances? There have been about a billion little things that have slowed or stopped content from sharing properly over the history of this system so far—how can you be sure there is malevolence on their part and not simply a bug that hasn’t been patched?
Spoiler: They don't. They are also not letting the absence of facts hinder them from claiming stuff to be true. Subsequently they worry about why their comments are being moderated.
Slight correction: Lemmy.ml is their reach-out and diplomacy instance. Their actual instance is lemmygrad.
I guess their diplomacy with me was to follow me around and downvote everything I posted until I just abandoned my original account.
Exactly they only harassed you instead of sending you straight to permaban gulag. Took me all of four or five days to get banned from lemmygrad and that's without even posting in their communities.
Trust me, the Lemmy devs do not support freedom of discussion.
Yeah, they donated their spare time to give you a decentralized platform where you could criticize them because they want to stifle "freedom of discussion"... That the lemmy.ml instance is heavily moderated on stuff like imperialist propaganda is a non-issue for freedom of expression due to the nature of federation. The devs do not even want their instance (lemmy.ml) to be the biggest, but actively promote joining other instances.
You confuse your right to express your opinions with the privilege of someone else providing you a platform for you to express them on. The devs provide the former without obligating themselves to be the ones to give you the latter.
You'd have a better point if the rules against "imperialist propaganda" were more evenly enforced to include all forms of imperialism.
But at the end of the day, when given an opportunity to reflect their own values in the way they run their instance, they have chosen a very restrictive framework to that end. I don't know how you can come to any other conclusion. It is clear that their development effort is not done to protect any speech besides what they have deemed acceptable, and as far as I am concerned, they have repeatedly shown that they will happily keep their fingers on the scale to whatever extent possible. This is why they will ban people for commenting on other instances, and then not federate the mod logs, etc. These things should absolutely be seen as evidence that they will exert control beyond their own instance if they can.
A lot to unpack here...
Being mainly concerned with global economic imperialism does not imply acceptance for more traditional imperialism.
Instances are independent and federated, hence do not need to reflect the values of the project as a whole in any way. These properties of decentralization are the values of Lemmy.
I've seen the rest of your claims before and you have been asked to present any facts contributing to them elsewhere. Seeing that you still have not responded to them, I will refrain from discussing it in depth for the time being.
I get the impression that your bar for "evidence" are lowered due to some personal experience. To actually engage on a point you made, modlogs have been a mess for a while and there are good reasons not to federate all details of content moderated (such as child porn). It seems weird to me that you contribute this to an agenda of the devs trying to control other instances when they were the ones that gave the other instances their independence in the first place. These actions also do not further any such agenda in a meaningful way. The much simpler and probable explanation is that engineering stuff like this is hard.
It's extremely easy to see that the modlog on .ml specifically doesn't match the modlog on other instances, and for issues which have nothing to do with csam. This whole dismissal of it "being a mess" is a pretty convenient excuse for the people who are literally implementing these features. We also know that they never seem to show any admin actions, though this could be attributed to them using alts to moderate. Still kind of shady, but I guess marginally less so.
If .ml admins would care the explain why their build sure seems to behave differently in a few key areas, then it would go a long way towards assuaging these fears. Or perhaps, if they took concerns about their heavy handed moderation more seriously, they would indeed get the benefit of the doubt in regards to their broader intentions.
You are confusing freedom of discussion to using an specific instance with specific rules. Lemmy is clear proof of what you say is not true, and you are incorrect in your deductions of what/why and who.