this post was submitted on 22 Mar 2024
1367 points (91.8% liked)
Memes
45646 readers
1114 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
You mentioned four different things, let me address the one I know the most about and is the most obvious. You can claim that your house or property is worth as much as you want, how the process works is that you ask for what you want and claim whatever you want, and then the bank does their underwriting and comes to their own determination of value and how much they want to lend. He did nothing wrong t hat I am aware of.
No, you can't. If you knowingly and grossly lie on paperwork that's called fraud. Why the hell would that be legal?
The fact that most people try to sneak 10% is entirely different from ballooning things by 600% and intentionally lying about the reasons.
So if you list your house for more than its worth on zillow is that fraud? Who is harmed by claiming you house is worht 600% more (which he didnt actually do but is perfectly fine)?
Obviously, a loan provider is harmed. Interest rates are calculated based on the radio of debt to assets. If you put a 10k mortgage on a 500k asset, you're paying far less interest than if you take a 450k mortgage on the same.
That's such a basic question, anyone who is into real estate shouldn't have to ask this.
Are you aware that mortgage companies do their own due diligence to determine the value of the property? Do you know what the underwriting process is?
Just so we're clear, your excuse for fraud is "but the other party has to check it too?"
Buddy, where do you think half the evidence is from?
You can read the decision for yourself. I don't need to defend the judge. https://www.scribd.com/document/706231478/452564-2022-People-of-the-State-of-v-People-of-the-State-of-Decision-After-Trial-1688#1fullscreen=1
For the explanation or damages, check the expert witnesses especially.
So then its fraud to claim or believe that your property is worth more than it is?
I am just explaining how the process works. Its like if I am selling a car and claim its worth $20k, its up to the buyer to agree or disagree, its not fraud for me to claim its worth $20k and the kbb value is $10k.
Look, you obviously haven't even briefly looked into the case if you're saying "it's just someones opinion", or that might be what fox news is saying.
I buy a Ferrari that can go 400mph and is worth 10 million because of it. But then I have a limiter installed that caps it speed at 90mph. Then I go to an accountant and say "hey, could you value the Ferrari I bought?", and they say "based on the info you gave us, we say it's worth 10,120,000".
Then I go to the bank and say "hey bank, could you loan me a million bucks, and if I don't pay you back, you can have this car that independent accounts say is worth 10,120,00". The bank agree, charging you all of 0.5% interest, because you agreed to give them a car worth 10 times the loan.
But because of the limiter you had installed, the actual value is more like 430,000, because it can't do what you claimed. So you intentionally lied to the accountant, and took that false info to a bank with the express purpose of benefiting financially of off those lies.
And you then repeat this by asking for a valuation of a 30,000 square foot apartment, which is actually only 11,000 square foot, and going to a different bank with another fake valuation.
And you just keep doing it, over and over.
So the one things you claim he lied about was the size of the apartment, which is misleading because of how you calculate square footage. The value is in the property not the building. But again, the bank verifies what you are saying, they will literally send someone there to look at everything, its part of the underwriting. Can you show me where they bank said they were defrauded?
From the documents you didn't read:
Seriously, if you didn't look at the documents, I'm not going to copy paste it piecemeal. The court wrote it all down in very clear language.
Sigh, I am talking about the inclusion of "finished" vs "unfinished" space. But that doesnt even matter the important part of my comment is that that value is in the land, and they will verify all of the information they care about. Can you show me where they bank said they were defrauded?
No. Read the decision yourself, the motivation is in the first 5 pages.
I am aware that a judge wrote a thing, who I know is poltically motivated. The supreme court voted 9-0 against what the court did in colorado, so just because a thing was done, doesnt mean its just.
Who was defrauded and how?
The answer as to why the state is charging him is on page 3. The fact that you don't care enough to look it up says that this discussion is entirely pointless. There are witness statements from the lenders spelling out they wouldn't have granted the terms based on accurate valuations further on in document.
If you can't even be arsed to open the document and read 1.5 pages, then I don't see why I should bother.
Literally the only questionable thing I have heard you or anyone say is that he overinflated the size of the residence. Do you understand what underwriting is?
Yes, I do. Why do you keep asking this question? What is your point? And, more importantly, why aren't you looking up the question yourself? Is it because you don't want to see it has already been adressed?
Page 1, because I'm way too nice, and for the benefit of anyone who reads this later and is just as lazy as you:
And why is that a problem? the Law (page 2):
And the judge adds (page 4):
And in the read, the judge specifically this bullshit series of "Where is the victim" that you're parroting, in addition to some other bullshit that you'll mostly find on Truth social, Fox news and similar nonsense-spewing media (and right here in this thread too)
Would you like to ask more questions where the answer is almost literally written out in the decission, instead of looking them up yourself?
Like I told you, I dont care about what a corrupt judge has to say, I care about the actual facts and what happens in real estate transactions. The worst thing I have heard (and I have heard it multiple times) is that they said the square footage was different than reality, is this the worst thing he did? If not be very specific on somethings worse. If it is the worst thing, then it doesnt change the value much, and would be caught in underwriting. And again, who was the actual party that was harmed?
Those are in the decision.
No, it's a single example, I've quoted other points above.
Already did, in the past above, and the rest is in the decision, very clearly spelled out.
That's also in the quoted bit, bold for your convenience and you still didn't read it.
I'm starting to seriously if you're just ignoring everything or if you have serious reading comprehension problem. Or maybe it's hard denial of everything you don't like? All your questions have already been addressed.
Please look into "Underwriting" and then get back to me.
Done (as said before). What's your point by repeating this?
I repeat it because underwriting is the thing that makes everythng that is claimed to be irrelevant. If you need another opinion, just listen to Kevin Oleary talk about this, or any number of other people that do real estate.
The guy who absolutely rips into everyone who dares overvalue their invention by 2 cents on Shark Tank?
I dont watch the show, but I am going to assume he does that. As a person that finds trump annoying, and am not going to vote for him, and has been involved in dozens of real estate purchases and sales, this whole case is such a load of crap that its hard to describe what a miscarriage of justice this is. I would recommend you actually listen to someone like Kevin Oleary talk about this because he will give a lot longer more detailed explanation becuase its not in text form.