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At what point is violence on a large scale justified? (lemm.ee)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

52 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I know this is a really vague question, but it’s been on my mind A LOT lately. I’m specifically asking about people fighting on behalf of a group that is subject to oppression of some kind. 3 years ago, with all of the protests in America that included violence majorly against property and minorly against people but were about police brutality, I couldn’t help but question the seemingly popular notion that the violence wasn’t justified. Why wasn’t it justified? Because the police had not officially declared war on black people and other minority groups, but instead continue as an authority figure to protect and uplift their own members who do punch down on people belonging to minority groups? Because the protesters had yet to exhaust their non-violent routes? Were these protests in 2020 a retaliation or a first strike? Even if they were a first strike, was it justified?

What about Hamas? Palestine has suffered from genocide in all but name for over 70 years so does that make Hamas the aggressor or are they the ones acting in self-defense?

What about the issues with income inequality that have previously around the world led to uprisings and revolutions like in France and Russia? Were they justified even though the poor were not being constantly physically oppressed?

What about the issues with representation in government that led to the American revolution? Did those justify violence? Was the American revolution justified simply because of violent moments like the Boston massacre?

Is there a line that a group in power crosses that justifies violent revolt, or is it never justified?

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm of the mind that violence towards innocent civilians is never justified. Violence towards an oppressive authority can be, depends on the situation. Also, as a side note, it's impossible to commit violence towards property/inanimate objects. Violence, in my opinion, is an act that specifically harms a person. So burning a house down, even if the owner is not in it, is still violence towards a person.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

what if those civilians are condoning/supporting what the oppressive authority is doing?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

If they're not active combatants they're not a target. How can you tell the difference between someone who is condoning/supporting vs someone who is just trying to survive? You can't so if they're not actively a threat they're not a target either.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Who is a civilian? Does a guy with a shotgun who doesn't like you in his backyard count as a civilian? Etc. It's hard to nail down.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

That's true, I would argue that is someone is threatening you then you can obviously respond with violence. This is an issue that has been going on in Israel. Civilians were given weapons and backed by the military to settle. This definitely blurs the line and helps to illustrate the complexity of the problem. In the case of Israel, the current situation is absolutely the result of its governments policies over the past several decades. This does not excuse wanton violence targeting civilians directly though. That's not even to mention the attacks and absolute war crimes happening to Palestinians right now and in the past.

It is a complicated question with not a single clear answer for every situation.