this post was submitted on 05 Apr 2025
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That is a very specific interpretation of what I meant by this post.
To be perfectly honest, I really wasn't making the point you should approve of nazis. Just that maybe it's worth putting effort into being kind to one another...
For example, I constantly see leftists online biting eachother's heads off (including on lemmy) for having slightly different left-wing ideology. Its not like "approach people you disagree with with curiosity" means specifically actual neonazis, and approaching someone with curiosity doesn't mean telling people "your idea is correct and you're right for thinking it"
It means trying to understand it. You can dislike someone and still gain from better understanding their worldview. Even if you think it's harmful. Even if you think it's illogical. Even if you think they're wrong. Curiousity isn't tacit approval.
If you want to think about it cynically you can consider it creating allies and knowing your enemy.
All of that ignoring the fact that if you look around, this platform is almost exclusively left wing ๐ even if it includes folks left of center I don't agree with, like tankies and neoliberals (who yes, I know, are only left with respect of the US overton window. Thats where I'm from ๐คทโโ๏ธ)
I understand we disagree on certain things, that's okay, these are just my thoughts on the subject, and it's a profoundly important one, so I can appreciate why people would have different strongly held beliefs on it. Hope you have a good one :)
Yeah that's a much too enlightened take for these parts it'll never fly.
Anger and fear are blinding if you let them be, especially if they're intensely justified.
Unfortunately we live in times where they're very justified. I don't begrudge people for reacting in anger or fear, I'm doing my best not to do exactly the same :(
Take care my friend.
As so often, the answer is found in scripture:
Answer. I said answer. Not solution. Too much aspirin and your blood thins out and you need to move to Transylvania.
That took my brain a hot minute to process lol. Is that actually from something or did you just invent it on the spot? ๐
Unironically wisdom we should all learn from. I can't stop for other people but I can at least choose how I act, and whether I contribute to that pain suffering and discord.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/1.php
"Tankies"
The irony with this is that Lemmy was founded by communists and it follows a lot of communist principles.
If you know what you are arguing and argue with tankies/Nazis in good faith, nine times out of ten they will eventually lose their temper and make fools of themselves. There is no need to be hostile to begin with, they just defeat themselves basically because their ideologies are totally flawed (kinda like in real life).
If you're out there suggesting political stances can be adequately expressed along a single line, then you're not doing much better I'm afraid. Engage with the nuance, friend, it'll build understanding and be better for all of us.
'Left'/'Right' need to go, they're losing any meaning they once had - instead: "What's your policy on X"? "How do you feel about Y?" "Do you agree with Z's policy on A, B & C, and why?".
Curiosity, followed by grounded opinion, over tribalism.
Now excuse me while I go and try to practice what I just preached ๐
But nuance is hard and demands empathy which is also hard. I want to be angry-mad and stomp my feet!
that's what i've been saying for a while now. like a healthy organism that has both left and right hands, society too shall have both right and left people in it. that is not a problem. what is the problem is that these different parts are not communicating clearly enough and it's causing dysfunction of society.
Don't apologize.
Oh, not them. I suppose they meant among non-right wingers. I always found quite explicit they aren't welcome here. Not today, not ever.
serious question but how do/could you formalize your rejection of right-wingers? what is it exactly that you take issue with?
i'm asking because i talk to a lot of people (also some who identify as "right-wingers") and i'd like to know what exactly are the issues that bother people, so i can forward it to them. it would help me bring up better arguments if i know what other people are thinking.
so, i've collected the following list of things to take issue with so far:
tell me if i forgot something.
The basic problem is thinking that conquering somebody is natural, inevitable, or good.
oh yes i forgot about canada and greenland somehow, sorry
actually i meant in general, like apart from the current situation with trump.
In America, right wingers support the republicans who have a verified track record of taking rights away, cheating elections and straight up lying. By refusing the see any other point of view, they reject open mindedness. They are unyielding in their beliefs and that is dangerous. It's whats led to the current affairs of the USA. Theyve been swindled for years. The thing I hate most of all is there core principle is hate. They hate minorities, immigrants, foreigners and gays. They always have some justification for it. "Gays are cross dressing and confusing my children. Gays are indecent. Minorities are abusing social programs. Jewish people are running criminal cabals. (Etc. etc.)
You'll have the "oh well I don't support THAT part of my political party but shrug nothing we can do ๐" publicans but don't do anything or even CRITICIZE it. And those that try to refute these points either outright deny that its true or use whataboutism.
I will end this by saying I have right winger friends who are radicalizing away from me and I'm trying my hardest to show them that core beliefs of comraderie and compassion is far superior to the kool aid they're being forced fed by all major social media companies.
actually let me think about it again:
IMO that somebody's always hateful is typically a sign of enormous psychological/emotional stress. so that tells me these people have a lot of problems, and probably don't know how to deal with the world. i wonder what education would do to them.
The main thing is the bigotry and making marginalized people feel unwelcome and unsafe. Having trans people and Nazis existing in the same space isn't really tenable, in practice, most marginalized people would rather be in a space where their existence and basic rights aren't up for debate and where they won't receive slurs and threats of violence. So the question is, who would you rather have in your community, oppressor or oppressed?
Of course, this person applies this standard blindly by including "tankies" as "right-wingers." She's just abusing a valid argument by using it to dismiss any perspective she doesn't like, left or right, bigoted or accepting, bad faith or good faith, as "right-wing."