this post was submitted on 22 Jan 2025
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As far as I knew, "Zionist" as a negative was primarily used by the Nazis for all that blood libel stuff. I think it may have been used under Stalinist communism as well. The KKK and other white supremacist groups use it. You also see Zion in hymns, usually as a reference to heaven.

FWIW, I'm not a supporter of Israel or the ongoing Palestinian genocide. I also think that most of the Muslim states are terrible as well. Organized religion and its involvement in the state is a cancer and it doesn't much matter if it's Judaism, Islam, or Christianity. Fundamentalism is terrible.

Anyhow, when I see "Zionism" to refer to support of Israel, it pings my bullshit detector. It isn't a part of normal discourse as I know it in the US. It feels like whomever is spouting it has been propagandized when I see it. It seems to be accompanied by varying degrees of jingoism and anger. Tends to be a very black and white worldview, almost naive. Reminds me of Qanon brainwashing but for the Left.

As this is Lemmy, it's not coming from neo-nazis.

What is driving this?

Is it tankies? (Which I don't know a lot about, but they seem to be heavily propagandized and unpleasant.)

Is it Muslims?

Some sort of Left ideology that isn't common in the US?

Is it politically naive kids that have been fed talking points?

Is it Russian, Chinese, or some other state level disinfo/propaganda?

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

I live in Canada, less than 100km from the US, and it's a pretty commonly used term. I've heard it come up in the beer league hockey dressing room in casual conversation multiple times.

I first started hearing the term occasionally in high school history class, then heard it more at university in political discussion contexts, then again a ton more in the past decade or so given what's been happening leading up to the current war.

It is not a propaganda term, it is literally the term for people who believe that Jewish people have a right to an ethnostate around historic Jerusalem.

This is a category of people that include some Jews, but not all Jews, and not exclusively Jews, it includes some Israelis, but not all Israelis, and not exclusively Israelis.

Some people wear the term proudly, and some people view it as the devil incarnate, so it's a term that can be used hatefully or non-hatefully, but it's not specific to Lemmy.

You're probably seeing it be used more in general these days because people critical of Israel are trying to be specific in their choice of language and just criticize the supporters of the idea of the Israeli ethnostate rather than Jewish people more broadly (obviously anti-Semitic), or even Israelis more broadly (which sweeps up many Arab-Iseaelis and other citizens who don't support their state), and misses the non Jewish / Israeli people who also fund and support the state of Israel for various reasons.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I'm middle aged, only recently left the deep south, and have never heard it used in conversation. Only occasionally saw it used on Reddit and before that, Slashdot. Seeing it a lot more on Lemmy.

My prior experience with the term was religious or white supremacist. I can probably count on one hand the Jews I have met and known they were Jewish. Tiny minority where I'm from. Antisemitism did become quite common as Qanon accelerated in 2020 and people that had no experience with Jewish people were suddenly spouting blood libel and such.

Is it more common outside the US, do you think?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago

Very common in my experience of french politics to distinguish between anti-Zionism and antisemitism.

It's also a lot more used since the genocide is an important subject, so that may explain why you see it a lot more used in the last two years.