this post was submitted on 14 Dec 2024
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Agreed. As in, Capitalism is also a transitional stage to Communism. China is a decidedly capitalist society, as evidenced by their production of commodities.
There will be no "employer" class under communism. A communist society is classless. China does not use labor vouchers even, it has a system of money.
The state is the Bourgeoisie in centrally planned economies. They extract surplus value from the Proletariat just like in a private market economy. The difference between the State Bourgeoisie and the Private Bourgeoisie, in China, is just aristocratic rank.
I am sorry, but none of what you have said makes any sense from a Marxist perspective.
You kill the Scientific and Dialectical aspects of Marxism and deny the existence of Socialism.
This is really 2 points in 1. "Employer" is not a class. Classes are not jobs, but relations to production. Communism will have managers, planners, and so forth to assist with economic production. The other point, on the PRC not using labor vouchers, that's for when China reaches Communism, when they are currently Socialist.
This is entirely anti-Marxist. The State is an extension of the class in power. In a fully centrally planned economy with full public ownership, there is no state. The bourgeoisie is focused on competition and accumulation, it isn't a "power dynamic" but a social relation to production. From Engels:
Bolded the most relevant bits. The state ceases to exist when classes cease to exist, because when all property is public there are no classes. However, production remains administrated and directed! I think it's quite obvious from reading the source material that Marx was no Anarchist, nor did he believe that Socialism was devoid of private property, nor could it be. This is a gradual process for Marx, one we call Socialism, as it works towards a fully Publicly Owned and Centrally Planned Economy, Communism. The government does not "extract surplus value" in a profit accumulating manner, but to pay for public services and infrastructure, directly spelled out by Marx in Critique of the Gotha Programme. The State is an extension of the dominant class, and the class which is dominant can be found through real analyzing of the trends and conditions of an economy. In the PRC, those trends are towards uplifiting the working class and continuing to fold Private Property into the Public Sector.
The first sentence of Capital:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/Capital-Volume-I.pdf
Leftcoms favorite pastime, reductionism so severe you can split the atom with it
It's not reductionist to say that China has all the elements of a Capitalist mode of production.
I swear to god ultras are more interested in the sort of masturbatory philosophising of categories than it actually producing any useful insights. It's the most anti Marxist thing to insist that a thing has to be only a singular thing with a concrete and rigid definition, it's like Marx didn't bludgeon you with dialectical materialism hard enough on practically every work of his. He spends decades insisting on the dialectical process and the necessary work to resolve contradiction through material means, which is an integral part of development, only for y'all to go "but this is vaguely like thing, how can it be other thing?"
Man said communism and the abolishment of the commodity form, of private property, the development of the productive forces, couldn't be achieved overnight, and every ultra went "but it's already been overnight, so now it can be, right?"
It does when you ignore all the material differences. A state where the biggest capital holders are regularly punished if they break the law or step out of line politically is not a state where capital has final say.
There's been no counter revolution in China, the organs of proletarian power remain in place even as reforms have been undertaken in every facet of life in China. It is the utmost chauvinism to pretend to know better than the biggest communist party in the world where even local officials are required to study Marxism diligently. Being really confident and having misunderstood Das Kapital to be a prescriptivist economical taxonomy doesn't make you an authority on Marxism. Applying that shit is what does.
So you admit it is capitalist?
The state are capitalists, they employ workers in state enterprises and pay them a wage in exchange for their labor. They are just a different aristocratic rank then the private capitalists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system
This system would NOT be possible in a DoTP.
Are you twelve? Jfc.
It's obvious you're skimming a comment for gotchas, so I find it just as likely you've skimmed excerpts of Marx rather than take on the rather arduous task of reading and understanding him, let alone fucking applying any of it
Infantile disorder moment.
Unfortunate that lemmy is such awful software it doesn't syndicate my changes I made months ago. I do not support Ukraine anymore, and have not for a long time.
That’s good to hear.
“996” was never legal, was never pervasive, and the state cracked down on it years ago.
Cool. Union-busting is illegal in the US too. Not paying overtime is illegal in the US too. Doesn't make it DoTP.
Proof?
Proof?
It was a private tech industry thing, occurring within the relevant special economic zones. The same NATOpedia entry you posted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system#Companies_involved
Again, the same NATOpedia entry you posted.
Because the Chinese state has fiat monetary sovereignty, it doesn’t function in the capitalist mode. It has no need to make a profit because it has infinite money[1]. It doesn’t need to extract surplus value from workers, and it doesn’t even need to break even. The logic of capitalism doesn’t apply.
Ultras fear the scroll.
Yeah all nation states have this. Countries that don't call themselves socialist have state owned enterprise and turn a profit. Non-seqitur.
All states don’t have it, actually. None of the Eurozone states do, for instance, and the US didn’t until 1971.
You don’t seem to be engaging with the content I’ve posted, but here’s one by Gabriel Rockhill anyway: How The Left Should Analyze the Rise of a Multipolar World, China, Russia & BRICS