this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2024
998 points (93.9% liked)
Memes
45886 readers
1632 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
It's capitalism that doesn't work.
Capitalism doesn't benefit the vast majority of us. But the purpose of capitalism is to enrich a fortunate few at the expense of the rest of us who will be reduced to perpetual wage slavery until we die. Capitalism is working a treat in that regard.
That point is def made in that link.
Have you read my comment?
I know capitalism don't work, everybody does now.
That has nothing to do with the fact we didn't manage to have one successful exemple of communism either...
I don't have a post for this, but also as a testament to China's poverty alleviation campaigns, world poverty is increasing if we exclude China.
When they write the history of the early 21st century, China's uplifting of millions of people out of poverty will be one of humanity's greatest acheivements.
Wrong, from the link I posted:
Capitalist hegemony has short-circuited people into buying wildly illogical and ridiculous propaganda like: "Lift yourselves up by the bootstraps" (which shows the almost religious power of capitalist propaganda, that the impossible can become possible), or "Communism doesn't work", when in fact Communism did work extremely well.
Examples from this post by /u/bayarea415, Stephen Gowans - Do publicly owned, planned economies work, Ian Goodrum - Socialism vs Capitalism and quality of life, and yogthos's USSR acheivements post about the USSR specifically:
When it is claimed that a system works, we should ask, who it works for. Capitalism benefits a tiny number of rapacious capitalists, to the detriment of the rest of us, while Socialism works for the masses.
For an overview of the soviet experiment, watch this brilliant talk by Micheal Parenti, or read his article, Left anticommunism, the unkindest cut.
Also read this great article by Stephen Gowans, Do publicly owned, planned economies work?. Audio on youtube
Bonus vid about cyber-communism: Paul Cockshott - Going beyond money.
More sources: Socialism Crash Course, Socialism FAQ, Glossary.
That's all awesome. So it's still around, right? It didn't collapse within one generation or anything, did it?
What do you believe to be the cause of the fall of the USSR?
The leader of it kinda sold out and started simping for Pizza Hut
It was overthrown by the USA, as the USA strangled most attempts worldwide in their cradles also.
Primarily via the arms race in the USSR's case. You can read more about that here:
Stephen Gowans - Do publicly owned, planned economies work,
Thanks for your reading of Gabriel Rockhill. I’ve seen some of his interviews, and they are impressive.
No probs. I've yet to read any of his books, but every single article I've read by him is top-notch.
Some interviews from his Critical Theory Workshop
Nice, thx.
That's a yes, it collapsed within one generation. Such a strong method of government!
If all it took, according to you, is one department of one nation to bring it down, it was not strong.
But we both know that's not why it collapsed.
The USSR lasted for 70 years, so that's like 3 generations. It also saved the world from Nazism, eliminated illiteracy, ended famines, became a world superpower, and made it to outer space, all within that time.
The USA was and remains the richest, most powerful country in history, and responsible for most of the overthrows, coups, and mass killings in the 20th century.
What does that have to do with the internal collapse of the USSR?
You do know that's not a country anymore, right? Or hasn't that news reached .ml yet?
you've still not made any actual assertions. "The internal collapse of the USSR" makes it seem like you're gesturing toward having some actual knowledge, which you're refusing to disclose, instead making smug assertions that this hidden vague knowledge that you refuse to declare means you're right. So, what does "the internal collapse of the USSR" actually mean to you? What are you imagining (the pictures and words in your brain) when you say "the internal collapse of the USSR," and what were the causes in your opinion for whatever you're imagining?
It doesn't seem like you actually know what you're talking about, because you're desperately avoiding making real substantive statements in any of these comments, instead throwing tantrums when pressed on what you actually think. Tell us your actual positions, without petulant 'McCarthy-if-he-was-a-redditor' tantrums, or otherwise stop pretending to have any.
okay, then tell us why you think it collapsed? These vague insinuations and gesturing don't prove your point, they make it seem like you're unsure of the basis of your own assertions.
Edit: And for the record, the first ever experiment of a modern socialist country in history, with no earlier examples to work off of, succumbing to a series of both external and internal contradictions doesn't say anything concretely about the viability of socialism as a whole. In fact, their massively successful strides toward constructing new relations of society, and the betterment of living standards for the vast masses of its people, and the provided security of housing, employment, nutrition, community, and healthcare which was established after fully collectivizing and industrializing (industrializing in 1/10 of the time it took the west to industrialize, without the fundamental basis of primitive accumulation through global colonialism, settler-colonialism, genocide, chattel slavery, child labor, aggressive wars, and malthusian sanitation practices that under-girded the western industrial revolution; and doing so after suffering such destruction in WWI and the civil and counter-revolutionary-interventionist war no less) proves there are extremely strong cases for it being a model of success to learn from and build off of, while learning from its shortcomings and mistakes.
A US sponsored executive coup is not equivalent to collapsing due to its own problems.