this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
282 points (95.5% liked)

Ask Lemmy

26890 readers
1671 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions

Please don't post about US Politics. If you need to do this, try [email protected]


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [email protected] or [email protected]. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email [email protected]. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

No, I don't want to buy one. This came out of a discussion about my brother, who is so much weirder than me if you can believe it, who owns a real human skull.

I don't know how he got it. I don't know where he got it from, maybe this company, more importantly, I don't know why he would want such a thing. He is not a scientist, he works in IT. He did get an MFA in theater, wanted to be a professional theater director and loves Shakespeare, I can't believe the reason was because he wanted Hamlet to be super authentic.

We're not all that close, so it really hasn't come up in conversation. I only know about it because he posted elsewhere a while back that he was on a Zoom meeting at work and he showed it off and couldn't understand why everyone stopped laughing and got silent. So obviously he thinks it's cool to own it.

It used to be a person. I'm an atheist and I don't believe in an afterlife, but that's just basic disrespect.

Anyway... how can you ethically source a skull and then sell it on the open market?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I think it's a murkier area than you're thinking. What if the skull was of a slave or of a Holocaust victim? I think selling such skulls would be highly unethical.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Does it matter? I understand this could be emotionally sensitive for some people but the only reason I could see this being relevant is if my purchase somehow induced more slavery or genocide. That seems very unlikely—in fact I can think of a number of common purchases people make all the time without a second thought that are far more likely to encourage such crimes.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago

I would be concerned that a market would take place, where money could be made selling them, creating more incentives to acquire skulls... you see where this is going?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

One of the major markers of Homo sapiens becoming people, arguably the earliest and almost universally shared human ritual, is burying the dead. Respect for our dead.

Does everyone need a big ass casket in the ground? No. But going “it’s just emotional” to folks who were emotionally attached to someone who died is a bit flippant/reductionist for my taste.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

It could also be a bunch of people like me who just dont care, and would totally sell their future empty skull for cash for the family.

I actually want to be cremated and have my remains made into some gems, and I wanted my skull to be kept and the gems mounted into the eyes. My wife vetoed that idea, I thought it would be hilarious. She didn't like the "fine, I'll just get a generic crystal skull or something then" response.

Anyway, once the brain bucket has no more brain to be a bucket for, I personally would be fine with it getting sold off. Couldn't tell you if its what it is or not, but I can definitely see there being plenty of people willing to sell it, without it being some sort of victim of something. I also think its much more likely to not be a victim of something.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I think it does matter, yes. I think it's exploiting a horrific tragedy. You don't know why the person is buying it. Maybe the person is buying the Holocaust victim skull because they're a Neo-Nazi and they intend to stomp on it at a party.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The possible future actions of a morally corrupt bigot have nothing to do with whether or not this collection of bones ought to be sold. I don't think they should be sold just because I think it's weird to purchase a person, even after death. But I don't think there's anything wrong with donating said bones to a research lab. The person who died is gone. They no longer exist. Only their loved ones matter in that they may be upset by the use of their remains.

Bones are relics and relics only have the value we ascribe to them.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Would you say the same about an executed person's organs if they had no next of kin? China should be free to harvest them like they do now? The person who died is gone.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The problem there isn't the use of the organs, but that they're murdering someone to harvest the organs.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

How do you know the skull wasn't harvested from the same prisoner?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Sure, if someone died of natural causes. Use them to save someone who is otherwise dying.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

I'm talking about the treatment of the dead, not China.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

I agree with you but I don't think it's intrinsically unethical because they are skulls, but because there might be humans emotionally attached to the remains of the diseased. Those skulls belong to someone (not the dead person anymore), and it is up to that person like with the rest of their property. In this regard, selling the remains of a loved one so you can feed the living, sounds exploitative to me, but I could say the same thing about any other economic injustice. All of with fall under unethical consumption under capitalism.

If no one has a connection to said skull, then I'd agree that it is just a piece of bone, and dealing with it is no more ethical or unethical than with a piece of bone your dog finds outside.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I think selling such skulls would be highly unethical.

Would you? Why? FWIW I agree that as long as there's a living person who cares about the fate of the bones then selling them would be unethical, I'm just curious as to your specific reasons - like, what is the hypothetical you're imagining, behind this statement? Are you contending it would be unethical even if nobody living cares, just due to the provenance? I can see why you would object if the former user of the anatomy believed in the sanctity of remains, for example.

I'm not sure I'd agree, but I'm not sure I'd disagree either. I'd need to think on it more. Right now, I'm leaning towards respecting the wishes of the dead as far as their remains go, because the universe is big and cruel and the only kindnesses are those we make for each other, so why shouldn't that extend as far as we do?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Because I think there are living people who care about the fate of the bones. You don't think there are lots of people who would object to such things? There are.

This isn't theoretical. People are criticizing museums for having the bones of slaves.

https://www.pbssocal.org/shows/democracy-now/clip/bone-rooms-how-elite-schools-and-museums-amassed-black-and-native-human-remains-without-consent