Privacy

31876 readers

357 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn't great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
Don't promote proprietary software
Try to keep things on topic
If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
Be nice :)

Related communities

Chat rooms

[Matrix/Element]Dead
Discord

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

168

[Opinion / Technology] Telegram founder’s arrest is radical — if it’s a crime to build privacy tools, there will be no privacy [Chris Berg | Aug 29, 2024 | crikey.com.au] (www.crikey.com.au)

submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

85 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Pavel Durov's arrest suggests that the law enforcement dragnet is being widened from private financial transactions to private speech.

The arrest of the Telegram CEO Pavel Durov in France this week is extremely significant. It confirms that we are deep into the second crypto war, where governments are systematically seeking to prosecute developers of digital encryption tools because encryption frustrates state surveillance and control. While the first crypto war in the 1990s was led by the United States, this one is led jointly by the European Union — now its own regulatory superpower.

Durov, a former Russian, now French citizen, was arrested in Paris on Saturday, and has now been indicted. You can read the French accusations here. They include complicity in drug possession and sale, fraud, child pornography and money laundering. These are extremely serious crimes — but note that the charge is complicity, not participation. The meaning of that word “complicity” seems to be revealed by the last three charges: Telegram has been providing users a “cryptology tool” unauthorised by French regulators.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Who said it's a street? What makes it a street?

personally have seen the illegal content I talked about.

Did you seek it out? I and nobody I know personally, have ever encountered anything like what was described on that platform and I've been on it for years.

Was it the same "channel" or "group chat" that persisted for years?

What gives them the right or responsibility to moderate a group chat or channel more than say Signal or Threema? Just because their technical back end lets them?

I mean by that argument Signal could do client side scanning on everything (that's an enforcement at the platform level that fits their technical limitations). Is that where we're at? "If you can figure out how to violate privacy in the name of looking for illegal content, you should."

Nothing Telegram offers is equivalent to the algorithmic feeds that require moderation like YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook, everything you have to seek out.

Make no mistake, I'm not defending the content. The people who used the platform to share that content should be arrested. However, I'm not sure I agree with the moral dichotomy we've gotten ourselves into where e.g., the messenger is legally responsible for refusing service to people doing illegal activity.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I won't go into the specific channels as to not promote them or what they do but we can talk about one known example, which is how Bellingcat got to the FSB officers responsible for the poisoning of Navalny via their mobile phone call logs and airline ticket data. They used the two highly popular bots called H****a and the E** ** G**, which allow to get everything known to the government and other social networks on every citizen of Russia for about $1 to $5. They use the Telegram API and have been there for years. How do you moderate that? You don't. You take it down as the illegal, privacy-violating, and doxing-enabling content that it is.

Edit: "Censored" the names of the bots, as I still don't want to make them even easier to find.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

which is how Bellingcat got to the FSB officers responsible for the poisoning of Navalny via their mobile phone call logs and airline ticket data

Was that a bad thing? I've never heard the name Bellingcat before, but it sounds like this would've been partially responsible for the reporting about the Navalny poisoning?

They used the two highly popular bots called Ha and the E ** G, which allow to get everything known to the government and other social networks on every citizen of Russia for about $1 to $5.

Ultimately, that sounds like an issue the Russian government needs to fix. Telegram bots are also trivial to launch and duplicate so ... actually detecting and shutting that down without it being a massive expensive money pit is difficult.

It's easy to say "oh they're hosting it, they should just take it down."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/16/postal-service-preferred-shipper-drug-dealers/

Should the US federal government hold themselves liable for delivering illegal drugs via their own postal service? I mean there's serious nuance in what's reasonable liability for a carrier ... and personally holding the CEO criminally liable is a pretty extreme instance of that.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Telegram is in the news often for public groups with lots of crime

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

"The news" is too vague a source to dispute.