this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2023
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I think a lot for the guys that follow these morons and buy into this culture did not have positive male role models growing up, thus turn to media for some guidance.
This does not excuse their conduct or self-delusion, but does explain why it happens.
They are victims as much as they are villains.
Very much so, which makes it all that more sad.
I'm in no way excusing their villanry, but most are so delusional that they won't ever take a hard look at the way they are and wonder if they could be something else or if they need to change
this doesn't mean much tho, considering people aren't ever born 'villains'. they all are created by something traumatic.
so sure, empathize all you want, but it doesn't help anyone. simply enables it.
Empathy doesn't have to mean letting them do whatever they want. It's the only path to reforming them. I've worked with a young kid with no dad in the process of going down this pipeline. You have to challenge them on what they think they've learned about being a man, but if you don't try to understand how they feel they will just shut you out. Ultimately you can't make someone believe something. So you either give up and label them a lost cause, or you actually try to reach them and convince them person to person.
I think it does help in that we can approach our ridicule of them from a constructive manner.
"Your role models are taking advantage of you."
"At least I don't fail to hide my insecurities behind toxic masculinity."
"You're alone because you choose to be alone."
I mainly feel bad with the young men who are not yet captured but are down that path. I'd like to think it couldn't have happened to me but I had the luxery of going through that time of my life when that stuff wasn't really around.
Though actually I had 4chan at that time and I turned out mostly well adjusted so they're not completely blame-free.
people seem to think if you're not in support of them or their position, then you haven't experienced the same things and been on the same path. I saw where I was going and specifically changed it.
I'm still a depressed, alone, piece of shit, but I'm not a bigoted, fascist piece of shit.
They also never grew out of high school mentality.
What do you think they should have done differently? I am excusing their behaviour but I want to understand what should anyone with no positive male role model do other than turn to the internet?
well people can be both, victims of circumstance AND be accountable to their own agency that's life its complicated and ambiguous. I bet like 20% of people with male socialization and no good role models haven't become complete dicks
It's not the fact that they're on the internet, it's the fact that being on the internet doesn't inherently make them good.
Of course a boy subconsciously looking for guidance will find these guys and feel inspired or compelled by them. But maturity is the concept of learning from experience and challenging your own understanding in order to be a more balanced and level-headed person tomorrow. You know, exactly what these guys try to stop.
So the only thing these kids can do is embrace growing up, becoming mature, and finding role model figures that champion that instead of ones that peddle the arrested development that these charlatans do.
I find it crazy that I didn't really have any real male role models, but the media I turned to ended up being guys like Henry Rollins.
The "finding myself" period of my life pre-dated the existence of this manosphere/shallow-ass-masculinity shit, but the archetype has been around for far longer and there were plenty of slimy douchebags to look up to. Sometimes I wonder what spared me.