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this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2023
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Why smoking remains so prevalent. I'm sure it's not a majority that smokes, but it is massively more common anywhere I've been in Europe than here in the US. I live in a fairly large city and I will go many days in a row without seeing a single person smoking.
I just don't really get it. It's gross, it smells, it ruins your teeth and your lungs, and it's expensive. Why do it?
In my case, and this the US, I had friends who smoked.
I was curious, bummed one, and once I got past the coughing I really enjoyed the effects, that said by the time you no longer get the "high" (for lack of a better word) you're addicted.
Fast forward 20 years and I'm still trying to quit.
Quit for 5 years cold turkey, but... Shit went down in almost every facet of my life, and I went back.
But I'm down to about a pack a week.
One in the morning, one on the road to work, and one or two during my shift if time allows.
Just need to kick it for good.
Edit: To correct typos
Hey dude, I believe in you. You can do it again and do it for good! Don't give up.
It's not necessarily that smoking is a larger percentage of the population. It varies, but stats show a similar percentage more or less... it is a bit higher in Europe on average than in the US on average — but both places are large with varied amounts of smokers. It's more that people are outside near each other more in Europe.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-country
In Europe they're walking down the street, sitting outdoors at cafes, hanging out in the city center, etc. Whereas in the US, people are often driving from place to place to go to a destination, so you don't notice the smoking as much. Plus, smoking sections are a concept that exists in the US (even outside), whereas they don't in Europe. Thankfully, in much of the US and EU, most places are finally non-smoking indoors now.
This is a gross overgeneralization. It's different in different parts of the US and different parts of Europe, of course.
(FWIW: I totally agree with you that it's gross. And it's far too common to run into in Europe.)
this is the same in asia. sometimes people don't even smoke, they just smoke because their boss does it and they do it to fit in at work. it's really awful.
Not the case in northern Europe by the way. I'm just as shocked when visiting countries in mid/south Europe
It’s way too broad a comparison. In my North Eastern US state, encountering smokers isn’t that common because it’s illegal inside and anywhere near a door. So to smoke, you have to pretty much hide. And it’s become uncommon enough, smoking makes you a pariah so people seem to be breaking the official rules less often as time goes on due to social pressure more than fear of enforcement. We were out at a bar the other day and a guy smoked on the patio and it very much stood out. You could feel the vitriol for this guy in the atmosphere and after a minute he walked in to the parking lot looking embarrassed. Not that long ago a waitress would have brought him an ash tray.
But go to Kentucky, there’s no rules about smoking anywhere. Last time I was there, we went to a grocery store with an ashtray between isles. Every building we went in to smelled like the 80s.
These are both the USA. And then in Europe, you do have countries like Bulgaria, Turkey, and Greece where more than 25% of the country smokes, which is higher than anywhere in the US. But then you have Sweden with only 6% and Norway with 7% which is a little bit better than anywhere in the US.
It really depends on the area, in some places smoking isnt really normalized anymore, in some places its the norm
In the USA less than 9% of the population smokes now. It's probably around ~7% at this point. It's crazy that we keep putting out laws like it's a massive issue. The reality is alcoholism is way worse than it's ever been yet it's still allowed to advertise on the TV and they can sell fruity flavors...but think of the children when it comes to tobacco...
I'm hesitant to spin valid concerns about alcohol into de-vilification of smoking. They are both vices, both unhealthy, both dangerous to the user and those around them for different reasons.
So yeah, it's valid to say we ignore the dangers of alcohol. But also yes, we should "think of the children" when it comes to tobacco.
What kid is picking up coffin nails these days? They vape or drink. It's probably why the FDA dropped deeming regulations when the cigar manufacturers went after them, no kid is smoking a $10 cigar.
That is threadbare justification for deregulation of something we know has basically entirely negative effects and absolutely is something that kids have historically done.
Kids' habits are fickle and unpredictable. Removing barriers to destructive behavior simply because they don't do that behavior as often anymore (the current regulations seem to work??) makes no sense.
The issue is they're not just leaving them in place, they're adding more regulations, while ignoring alcohol. More people are alcoholics now than ever, and everyone is completely fine with it, but smoking is taboo and "omg think of the children".
But... It's still not bad that those smoking regulations are being put in place.
It weakens the argument for additional alcohol regulation when you keep insisting that the regulations being put on another similar vice are pointless.
How do you figure? Those of us who enjoy cigars/pipe tobacco/snuff are basically seeing our vices disappear because "think of the children". Small makers are being forced to close because of the regulations on cigs. All while alcohol is completely allowed to do what it wants.
The argument works exactly the same the other way. Your rationale is based on your own preferences.
In a vacuum both tobacco and alcohol are destructive vices with no real discernible objective "benefits" to larger society. The argument against alcohol is exactly the same as the one against tobacco products. They harm the user and potentially those around them.
I'm not saying that tobacco should be further regulated while alcohol is not. But I am saying that the rationale for alcohol regulation is ultimately based on a desire to limit destructive behavior, which is the same rationale for limits on tobacco. You cannot effectively argue for deregulation of tobacco while arguing for increased regulation of alcohol. They are two sides of the same coin.
I think that's what you are missing here. I'm not arguing for more regulation on alcohol. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of it all. How alcohol is completely overlooked by society but tobacco is this taboo thing now.
Well, the U.S. consumes a significant amount less alcohol than most European countries. So with both vices, Europe is doing worse than the U.S.
Sure but both countries are pushing tobacco laws like mad, while not touching alcohol.
It's literally prohibition all over again...
I'm one for letting people enjoy whatever vice they want, even if it's hard drugs, but only because I know prohibition doesn't work. We shouldn't be telling adults what they can and cannot enjoy
Cigarettes are much worse for everyone around you than alcohol. Passive smoking is pretty dangerous and the main reason why so many laws exist against smoking in public places.
No it is not, the 2nd hand studies where flawed heavily. Smoking is bad for you period, but second hand smoke is as bad for you as sitting in traffic. Alcohol is bad for people around you as well, lots of DUIs were people are harmed and killed because of it.
To an extent, I see where you're coming from, but if we keep cigarettes legal, most of the additives need to go. There's no need to put tar and acytone in a cigarette.
They don't put those things in cigs. It's a by product of burning tobacco. Those lists of whats in a cigarette are bullshit, it's just the chemical reaction of burning something.
There are laws against smoking in public places and cigarettes are expensive. Those who smoke are in it for themselves, not a European thing.
It's definitly a thing in some places. I travel a lot between Switzerland and Germany and the difference in how much public smoking there is, is quite extreme.
I'm not at a level of expertise where I can say for sure how much of an effect they've had, but part of the resolution of that lawsuit in the US where it was determined that the tobacco industry knew tobacco was addictive and caused cancer was that the industry had to establish a fund that was earmarked for anti-smoking advertisements. Those commercials by the Truth Initiative warning kids about the dangers of nicotine? At least partially funded by big tobacco.
All those things are true but are countered by the fact that it's also fucking awesome.
That’s not a fact, Jack. Also, you stink.
Sorry, but it is indeed a fact. Also, OK :)
Sounds like you're addicted to smoking yourself