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In China, It’s Already Cheaper to Buy EVs Than Gasoline Cars::undefined

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[–] [email protected] 165 points 1 year ago (7 children)

They are far simpler with fewer parts. It is only a matter of scaling up manufacturing. The biggest cost is the battery.

BYD is closing in on Tesla as the largest EV manufacturer and most Americans have no idea they exist.

[–] [email protected] 148 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (15 children)

I was in China two months ago and the use of electric cars is honestly changing the feeling of big cities. Delivery motorcycles and service vehicles are all electric now, and with the number of electric cars on the road, streets are a lot quieter now barring the frequent honking. Less air pollution too.

What I love about Chinese electric car manufacturers is that they've fully embraced the cyberpunk aesthetic from the chassis design to the car sounds. Made me feel like I was walking around a cyberpunk movie set.

[–] [email protected] 59 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Cannot wait until EV replaces the noisy crotch rocket bikes .

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago

There were already tons of ebikes on the streets when I was there in 2016. It was a bit of a problem as a pedestrian as they are super quiet and the practice is to drive those things pretty much without regard for any concept of pedestrian right of way. You learned to be ultra careful crossing any street.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Electric bikes should in theory be much, much faster. Energy density is a problem, tho. Can’t fit much battery in a small frame, so you sacrifice power for range.

Find me a 200hp electric bike that will do 400km on a charge and I’ll be the first in line.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My CBR1000rr would do like 150kms on a tank. Find me any bike that will do 400.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Maybe I got a bit excited on the range there. Find me a bike that does 150km and charges in 30 seconds 😏

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In the US, e-bikes are speed limited and ranked Class 1, 2, and 3 with the fastest going just below 30 MPH.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

That's if you want to use bike trails. Get yourself a motorcycle license (not that difficult with MSF) and title a bike as one, and you can do some sketchy ass shit with frames and wheels not meant to go that fast.

Proper electric motorcycles are kinda crap right now. Expensive, and the range is limited. Battery tech doesn't yet scale down well for that market. Pedal assisted e-bikes, though, are pretty good.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

As a noisy crotch rocket bike rider, I agree completely.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I just got back from a business trip to China also. The high proportion of EVs, particularly in the southern cities like Guangzhou and Shenzhen really stood out to me, and many of them (particularly from BYD) looked really, really nice. They seemed less prominent in the more northern part of the country (e.g. Shenyang, Beijing), but even there I'd say they're more common than in the UK.

It was a real eye opener

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That was my experience as well. Very prevalent in Sichuan, but less so in Shanghai. Still, even in Shanghai, they were leagues ahead of Canada.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, there's only 35 million people in Canada, a country with a larger land mass than China. The charging infrastructure in Canada is pitiful.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you have pictures? I would love to see.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I found this article from last year showing some interesting models. You'll see the most popular EVs range from more classical designs to weird and retro-futuristic.

Some of them also make futuristic noises when they drive around... The noise isn't needed at all because the motor is pretty much silent, so they're added by manufacturers so you hear them coming. I swear they sound like something out of a '90s sci-fi flick.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Hope those are customizable. Can't wait to load up the TIE Fighter engine sound.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That Wuling Hongguang Mini EV is so adorable and looks like some sort or VW bus/classic car hybrid. I would totally drive that thing.

Also those BYD cars look like ripoffs of (in order) Kia/Hyundai (Qin Plus), Honda (Han), BMW (Dolphin), and Chevrolet (Yuan Plus)

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Would be interesting to see. The Chinese EVs being pushed on the market here (Europe) are the typical ugly huge American SUV style.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah, American here. This isn't a huge mystery. Electric cars here are expensive because people refuse to give up their giant vehicles. American culture is so gross...

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Even small electric cars are expensive in America. The Kia ev6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5 and 6 are all quite “small” for American vehicles and they’re still 45k+

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Shouldn't it be the opposite? If demand is low, then prices should correspondingly be down until adoption increases.

Certainly the opposite is often used to just y increasing prices

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, what I'm saying is that American car makers aren't producing small electric vehicles because Americans refuse to drive small cars, which makes the ridiculously large ones prohibitively expensive because the batteries have to be enormous.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

There are definitely a lot of oversize vehicles in North America and trucks do have high sales, there's still plenty of people driving decent sized Japanese vehicles (Toyota, Honda).

I do agree that the "F350 to drive to work and do grocery runs" crap is dumb as fuck though.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

The batteries on some of these SUV EVs weigh as much as a car. It's pretty silly.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What I love about Chinese electric car manufacturers is that they’ve fully embraced the cyberpunk aesthetic from the chassis design to the car sounds.

So, the Vaporwave color pallete?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'd really like to see more of this. Do you know some of the names of these super cool manufacturers / designs?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not the OP, but I live in China.

Check out for example the Xpeng (Xiao Peng) G6 and P7, the Qiantu K50, Zeekr 009, Lynk & Co. 03, Aiways U5 and the Dongfeng Mengshi M-Hero 917 (now if that's not HALO inspired, I don't know...).

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Ah these are really cool, but I misread car and thought OP meant bikes. Americans will never be able to buy these sweet chinese cars.

I read in an article that chinese people who own these cars often sit in the back and have a driver. Is that true?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah, what he mentioned were e-bikes, but those are not really on the fancy side. Search for 饿了么 scooter or 美团 scooter. They do food and grocery deliveries mostly. For private use, Niu scooters are the most popular in terms of design, but a ton of cheap stuff exists. Couldn't tell you about the brands, they are all very generic.

Electric motorbikes exist, but require a special license and are banned in most downtown areas, so they aren't really common. One brand I'm aware of is called Dayi Motors, they recently got certified for the European market, so chances are that those would become available elsewhere as well.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Oh sorry forgot to mention the drivers. In my experience this is not true at all. People who have drivers are usually senior executives, and they'd have company cars. Typically some top of the line Mercedes or BMW, sometimes a Porsche SUV. Electric cars (even the fancier ones) are rather affordable, and people here are very focused on their external impression.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

What I love about Chinese electric car manufacturers is that they’ve fully embraced the cyberpunk aesthetic from the chassis design

I actually think Chinese EVs are quite ugly.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

BYD has chosen not to approach the US market until at least 2030.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They're building buses in California. I drive by this plant on occasion.

https://en.byd.com/news/byd-produces-400th-bus-in-lancaster

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I personally like myself a Yutong E series... especially with the (fake) wood floor option and dark grey interior.

Why can't all public transport interiors be designed so nicely 😭

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I visited the BYD factory years ago. I have no idea how big it is compared to others but it absolutely blew my mind. I was up on like 5th floor and when they sounded the lunch bell it looked like ants out the window. I think they said it was about 600k employees in that building.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

600k seems a bit too much. That's a fairly large city.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

It being huge is an understatement. They have dorms where people live on-site and it’s they are massive. Multiple soccer complexes and tons of restaurants all on campus.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I don't know how many workers BYD have, but Foxconn flagship factory is Longhua Science & Technology Park and it is a small city with hundreds of thousands people working there. Check the Google Maps satellite view, it's crazy.

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