907
TIL 40 states in the US charge you $20-$80 a day for being incarcerated in prison.
(en.m.wikipedia.org)
this post was submitted on 02 May 2024
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_effect
Biden or Trump winning is a major loss. Instead build a better party instead of complaining.
People should do that... After this election that is.
Hilarious. Where have liberals been after 2016? 2020? The time is now, and you are trying your best to maintain the control of our government by the rich.
And risk Trump presidency? No thanks.
You in 2028 after doing nothing for 4 years: "And risk (insert Republican here) presidency? No thanks."
While the country goes to shit.
They aren't equal. They're both shit, but they aren't equal. And I don't know about you, but I'd rather keep my right to vote, which is under threat thanks to the likes of Trump.
Not seeing anything you've built. All I see is you complaining about Biden and Trump.
If you want better, we need electoral reform. Our current system is mathematically biased against third parties.
Why didn't Trump use these magical powers he supposedly has to take away our right to vote?
https://www.gp.org/ Where is yours? What have you done to oppose the rich controlling our government? You consent to it.
Yes, that's why I vote for candidates that support ranked choice voting.
You vote for candidates that oppose ranked choice voting.
See how you have no solutions here?
Because it took them time to rig the SCOTUS.
Yeah, a party that has won exactly zero presidential elections what a party you've built. How proud you must be.
A man abducts you and gives you to choices:
Have sex with him "willingly"
He kills you, and has sex with your corpse
Choosing the first option in no way is consensual.
Good for you.
Factually incorrect.
Exactly what law do you expect them to pass? This is all Dems fault for being so garbage that Republicans even have a chance.
You have to vote for them to win dumbass.
You are truly deranged. In this comparison you could choose neither and vote green party.
Biden supports RCV? Which Dem?
They are openly debating if the president can have political opponents killed. Quit living under a rock.
No shit.
But I am not an imbecile who thinks they can magic away the spoiler effect. That's you.
Voting third party is equal to choosing the second option.
Get a grip. You've done no better to get RCV implemented. Your votes get you nothing, because you vote for candidates that mathematically cannot win thanks to the inherent biases of FPTP voting.
And RCV isn't even that good of an option. STAR and approval are superior.
Hilarious. The rich have you figured out and are playing you like a fiddle.
The literal only way is voting, it's so simple it's hilarious.
Nope.
LOL so people who had power and proved to you they will do nothing to get RCV passed. Greens can mathematically win, you just vote for them.
Yes the Dems will surely do this for you LOL
Have you passed the fifth grade? I honestly can't tell given your inability to make a sensible sentence.
Voting isn't magic, stop treating it like so.
It objectively is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_effect
No they cannot. The spoiler effect is an inherent problem to our electoral system. You cannot just magic away systemic problems.
What do you not understand here?
It's incredibly simple. You do not understand even the basic definition of democracy.
Not if you vote for them and gather support instead of whining like a baby.
Then change it, get over yourself. I am helping fix this problem by voting against it, you are not, very simple.
How do you think you get electoral reform? Because the democrats sure as hell are never gonna give it to you if you keep voting for their garbage bottom of the barrel candidates. American politics really are a shit show, you're trying to act like you're the reasonable one but getting so damn belligerent.
Mass protests, general strikes, voting in progressives that actually stand a chance, etc.
I know they won't, which is why you vote in the primaries.
You know who sure as hell are never gonna give it to you? Third party candidates. You can't make reform if you don't get voted into office in the first place.
Genrrallt you don't get bottom of the barrel candidates if you actually work to put forth good candidates in the primaries. And a bottom of the barrel democrat with always be better than an outright fascist republican.
Hey, if you don't like how I'm responding, maybe don't start with saying things like
Practice what you speak.
Name one time when you havent gotten a bottom of the barrel candidate? Look what they did to my boy Bernie. He wasn't even ideal but at least he had a shot and the democrats you're praising tanked him. They're playing you, intentionally holding up an awful boogeyman constantly and saying "if you don't vote for our piece of shit we're gonna give you the bigger piece of shit." The only way to win is not to play their game. Maybe if they lose enough voters they'll get the message but they sure as hell won't if you keep letting them win.
Summer Lee
I've voted for her at least 4 times now to get her into office and keep her there throughout the last few primaries and generals.
I am well aware, and I'm pissee off about that too. It should have been Bernie for the last 8 years.
I think you don't understand where I am coming from. In no way am I praising the democrats that tanked him.
Yeah, I know they're using it to their advantage. It shitty as fuck, and a direct result of our electoral system. They know that third parties aren't viable due to the mathematical requirement of the spoiler effect being a part of our current system. So they use it to their advantage.
But there is the thing, under Trump, we may lose our right to vote. We might end up seeing a true dictatorship. He's already floating the idea of a second Jan 6th.
I'd rather live in the current corporate run dystopia than an outright fascist version called Gilead.
Yeah, I'm really going to feel like I'm winning when I'm lined up against a wall under the next Trump administration.
The Biden campaign managers know they're losing voters to this shit, they aren't that stupid. They're gambling that the status quo will land them the most votes. It's fucking stupid, but they clearly don't care about losing votes to this issue.
The one who just voted for the military industrial complex with H.R.8035?
You continue to vote for a party that has a rigged primary with super delegates.
Remember you consented to this.
The request was for "not bottom of the barrel", not perfect. If you're looking for a perfect politician, you've defined an impossible task.
No. I vote against the worst, the party openly embracing fascism.
I'd rather consent to corporate run dystopia than fascism.
Meanwhile you're consenting to fascism with your choice to throw away your vote. You do not have the high ground here.
We have different standards. I couldn't live with myself voting for billions to Raytheon and Boeing like you do.
You could do that without voting for "corporate run dystopia" by voting green party.
I'm consenting to neither.
Nope. You just admitted that you are. This is how voting works lmao. I'm literally not by casting a vote against it, and you are.
Voting for a politician is not an open agreement with every action they take. I didn't vote for billions to go to war manufacturers. I voted against Trump.
Thus splitting the vote and landing us in Gilead, no thanks. I don't want to get killed by the state for being LGBTQ+
Gonna straight up steal from a different user.
"Voting does sort of make you complicit, honestly.
But guess what? Not voting also makes you complicit. So does voting in a way that has no chance of having an effect based on the current rules.
Basically, existing as an eligible voter, at least in a country where voting isn't rigged (so like, Russians are off the hook here, for example) makes you complicit in your government's actions.
That's kind of a big point of being in a democratic society - we are all, every one of us, responsible for the actions of our government.
And if you don't like that responsibility, I get it, I totally sympathize, because I agree. I hate that responsibility, especially cause I know damn well I'm not qualified to make those decisions. But I still am responsible, and pretending I'm not doesn't change that."
https://lemmy.world/comment/9735774
So bullshit. I'm assuming you voted 3rd party in 2016. You chose to vote in a way that had no chance of having any effect to stave off Trump. So you are complicit in Trump. You consented to Trump. And thanks to people like you, we are now losing abortion access. The SCOTUS is now openly debating if a president can have political opponents killed. The road of fascism we are heading down is directly a result of people limply throwing pissing their vote into the wind.
You literally did, and are planning to in November.
Same here, by voting for the green party.
Nope. Most green voters I've convinced have been non-voters. They are the biggest voting block.
They just described why I vote green party.
Yes, that's why we're responsible for building a better party, very simple to understand.
I'm proud I did not consent to Trump or Clinton in 2016, you did. Green have a chance because Dems and Republicans are terrible. You're just a scared, disenfranchised little child that can't make your own decisions. I am responsible for improving my government, which is why I'm building a better option in the Green party. You do nothing but whine and submit to fascism, pathetic.
Belittling people is rarely a good dialectical tactic, and speaks to your own level of maturity. If this is the type of discourse employed by green party supporters and campaign volunteers, I'll be staying away.
Based on what I've seen of your post history here, you're a combative ideologue who's not interested in building anything other than ill-will, with seemingly zero desire to talk about anything that doesn't give you an opportunity to aggressively proselytize. You seem to turn every conversation you have into an abrasive display of your moral superiority, repeating the same talking points ad nauseum while abandoning any points that shift out of your favor.
Perhaps you hope that you can activate non-voters with your accusatory, venomous, divisive rhetoric, but I struggle to see how that strategy will be beneficial should a Green candidate make it to the Presidency. Coalition building with the Democratic party will absolutely be necessary to get Green legislation through congress early on; It seems short-sighted to belittle and alienate those who vote closest to your interests on the political spectrum by equating them with those who vote furthest from your interests. Ideals are important, but game theory underpins all political action and must be considered.
Further, RCV does not require the Green party to be implemented. Many states have been experimenting with RCV (and other alternative voting systems) without leadership from the Green party (source). That trend has been picking up steam across the nation.
Only in response to their claims, I am not "belittling" them, they made those statements themselves that they consent to "corporate facism", I do not.
That's fine, I'm targeting non-voters.
That is necessary considering how heavy handed pro-capitalist propaganda is. What would you like to discuss?
The truth is hard to accept, and I am not ashamed of being against fascist corporate control of our economy, regardless of how hard you try to make me conceed that. Now provide an example of me abandoing any point that has been "out of my favor".
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voter-turnout-2018-2022/ There is plenty, in fact it is often a majority.
The Democratic party will not be there to offer a coalition. They spend millions trying to prevent Greens from even being on the ballot. Your "game theory" is wrong considering you used nonfactual inputs. The only path towards progress is rejecting all pro-capitalist actors, which will more than make up for it with support from the poor working class.
Gaslighting at it finest, I never claimed the Green party was necessary for RCV to be implemented, only the Democrats will fight against it since it hurts their chances against third parties. The trend has been by ballot initiatives, not Democratic legislation.
You straight up called me a dumbass because I disagreed with you.
Yeah, get the fuck out of here. /u/LengAwaits is right, if this is what the green party stands for, fuck off.
You said that yourself.
Don't want your help, targeting non voters not brainwashed liberals.
Go gaslight someone else.
https://lemmy.world/comment/9837122
This you? You did say it yourself.
👍
Let's discuss this:
What of it? They asked for an elephant in a closet