treefrog

I was referring to quality lol

I can buy a pack of American Spirits and half a smoke will satisfy me.

I finish a Camel, and I'm like, wtf happened to that thing?

Huh... I was basing this info off huberman labs episode on nicotine. He's usually very accurate (he's a neurobiologist and a professor at a major university)

It's also more addictive than tobacco. Which isn't saying it's not safer. But the vape ROA hits the brain faster than smoking. This reinforces the addiction cycle more effectively. One of the reasons crack cocaine is so fucking addictive. It's vaped cocaine.

Here's an example.

I was advertised camel smokes as a kid.

Everytime I relapse it's on camels. Camels are shitty and cheap.

I relapse and then switch to a brand that's not garbage. Then figure out again how to beat the addiction.

It's a substance use disorder directly caused by advertising. And cancer causing (so my physical environment).

Here's another mental illness that's very easy to trace back to advertising.

Eating disorders.

I clicked on the article before I replied a week ago, and before I replied just now.

The article title does not include the word bad, management, or processes and the word companies is inclusive of those things so it doesn't matter that it doesn't.

I'm all for blaming management over rank and file employees. But generally, when I see the word companies I think managers (it's inclusive of management and processes, as I stated earlier). And it's not inclusive of employees, who are not the company but work for the company.

In other words, I think we agree outside of you being pedantic :P

That's the headline in the article.

Unless you're being pedantic about 'Companies' not being specific enough. Because bad management and lack of proper process is inclusive under the word 'Companies' when used in the context of this sentence.

Yup, I figured service jobs would be some of the last to go honestly. Replacing a person that works at a desk on a computer all day with a computer is just cutting out the middle man. Replacing someone that requires a lot of physical ability to move around and manipulate objects requires tech that doesn't live in the cloud.

And considering I've been reading about AI taking other jobs for the last year or more, I guess they kinda are the last to go. Now we just sit back and watch it accelerate. Either get UBI or a revolution that leads to UBI. Or the cyberpunk future the oligarchs plan to leave us with as they set their power hungry sights on Mars.

Property is a spook generally.

But I can't blame journalist's for wanting to eat.

Which is what this is really about. Food and paying the bills. Not intellectual property.

Again appreciated. I'm pulling the systems science book from Anna's archive now and will bookmark and read through the links you just posted.

Thanks for the conversation :)

Same on meeting someone not attached to one view. I've quite enjoyed our conversation and will check out the book suggestion.

Any modern books or articles on anarchist conceptions of hierarchy would be appreciated too. My first breakthrough into non-heirarchal thinking (as in I'm an I and need to be in control of everything) came from an oral dmt experience. It helped me a lot in understanding Buddhist concepts of the aggregates, and mental formations especially. And I see a lot of parallels between anarchisms views on property and Buddhism's no self.

Learning to not micromanage it as much was advice I first came across in a Shambala book and took years to put into practice. (Still takes practice tbh).

That said I think there's also learning involved. As I mentioned earlier I do physical flow practices and muscle memory is some kind of learning. I don't know how this learning takes place though as muscle biology isn't much of an area of interest for me.

I was thinking about our conversation more last night after I went to bed. Are you aware of the moon in the dew drop metaphor? I think I've been looking for hierarchies when it's all cybernetic feedbacks up and down multiple layers. Like the T4 layer, we could call the root, but we're a reflection of it and it is a reflection of us.

Really hard to not think in terms of hierarchy though.

I'm trying to think of a good way to draw it with language. (1-5)-6-7-8. Sense impressions from the five sense gates (I know there's more) comes in reflexively from the 8th consciousness (the evolving environment). Mind consciousness (reflective) sits between the sense consciousnesses and volitional consciousness (what do I like/dislike/want/need, i.e discriminatory) forming a map (data set) out of sense experience and a direction out of volitional formations. Enlightenment is turning mind consciousness around and seeing that volitional awareness itself is evolving along/with the eighth or T4 because we're in a feedback loop. But it's always multiple loops even if the T4 system seems to be separate from our little 60-80 year lives, it's not. Our brief period evolved from it and evolves it. No birth and no death.

Sorry that's more Buddhism than AI or cybernetics. Trying to communicate my understanding (map which is not the territory) to the best of my ability. And this conversation has deepened my own understanding, learning the T4 systems model was a helpful way to look at things and something I'll keep studying as time goes on :)

Okay, I've read over the article and a few links to help my understanding.

I think in the yogacara/eight consciousness model, we'd say store consciousness is the t4 evolving consciousness that stores the collective and individual seeds. T3 would be discriminative awareness or volitional awareness, i.e. what I want (manas or the wisdom of equality in its enlightened state). T2 would be mind consciousness, which through skillful application we can find that well lubed machine you mentioned (aligning itself and manas with store consciousness through practice and deep looking, which resolves fear of death as we're able to look beyond our individual lives). And T1 the sense gates with only reflexive awareness.

I appreciate this conversation btw and hear what you're saying about the maps only being maps and how they miss some things like sense of balance.

So yeah, I don't think machines are T3 systems. No sense of agency. A working space for learning (like mind consciousness) but not 'self aware'.