jerkface

That's obviously not my point. "Next level stupid" indeed.

I pointed out that they are making it up

Is that what you think you are doing??

I think you meant to say, "no, you don't, and I won't look at any evidence to the contrary, la la la, i cannot hear you, la la la"

Unfortunately for you, in observational studies, vegans on average have better serum B12 levels than carnists do. If you're suggesting you can get enough B12 purely through a diet of animal products, you've misunderstood nutritional science.

Do you know how B12 gets into your meat? It is injected there. ANIMALS CANNOT PRODUCE B12. Just take the fucking supplements instead of using murdered animals as a delivery system for the exact same fucking supplements.

And maybe, if you are trying to sound educated on a subject, do more than a single solitary google search.

Veganism is not a moral system, it is an ethical system. Before we continue, do you understand the difference?

I didn't say they had the same value. I said they had value. Consuming them for hedonistic pleasure is only ethically consistent with the view that animals have effectively zero or even negative intrinsic value.

Okay? So?

Being cruel and violent to innocent creatures requires that you learn to suspend your empathy. Being cruel and violent to innocent creatures EVERY SINGLE DAY requires that you main your empathy, to actually injure yourself and impair your ability to be empathetic AT ALL.

To respond to your apparent non sequitur, I value compassion and empathy. Don't you?

Why can't we?? Meat is a luxury product!! The only reason you can afford it at all is because I subsidize it so heavily with my taxes. It is made by refining cheap, safe, plentiful plant food using the bodies of animals to create a toxic, addictive, scarce luxury good. In that process, MOST OF THE NUTRIENTS ARE LOST. If we all stopped eating meat, we would have such an overabundance of food, we would have to stop farming more than half the land we are currently farming for plants.

Now tell me why YOU can't stop being cruel and violent against the kindest, gentlest creatures on the planet? Because even if you can come up with a tortured hypothetical reason some unlikely hypothetical person can't, if you can, then what you are doing is atrocity.

You should be just as confident that animals are having experiences as you are that your fellow human beings are. They TELL you that they are having experiences. Have you never known an non-human mammal in your life?

If you were emotionally motivated to think of Irish people as not having the same full experience of life and suffering that you do (perhaps they taste good, or perhaps you have a coal mine their children labour in) you will find that you can convince yourself that they don't. You are engaging in a set of obvious psychological defense mechanisms to protect your worldview that lacks any coherent ethical structure against ideas that are ethically consistent.

They don't. It's a facile philosophy invented on the spot to avoid thinking rationally about ideas and feelings that they are not prepared to process. It's disingenuous bullshit that we aren't really supposed to engage with, it's just suppose to distract and derail their own thought process. It's fucking pathetic, practically solipsism.

No. What is Putin-esque is churlishly claiming that your cruelty and violence are actually the consequences of other people's decisions and actions. It's chilling and everyone sees right through it, but neither you nor Putin really care about that, because neither of you are engaging in good faith.

Well now, that's not entirely true. If you will grant me, at least for the sake of this discussion, that /u/dullbananas is a homo sapiens, then I know, to a scientific certainty, that the more meat this homo sapiens consumes, the younger they will die, and the more major health consequences they will suffer.

Would you like to see the several significant and influential studies, some of which span several decades, that establishes this as an indisputable fact or would you just like to keep coming up with the same pat objections that everyone who wishes it was okay to keep eating meat tries to use to rationalize the decision?