If you just read the wiki article you linked as well, there is circumstantial evidence you’re just ignoring.
fathog
joined 1 year ago
Well, if you ever do, let me know 😉
There’s another version of Spiders? I was a fanatic for the first book in high school, I had no idea
That’s a super interesting perspective on this stuff. Sorry you’re going through that internet brother - I hope you can communicate to your dad that he’s loved the way he is. Definitely seems to be true
Wow, this is super cool - saving this for when I finally spruce up my old desktop for a home server. You’re a talented person mate
Or maybe that slur really did carry less weight for an Englishman in 1971? Here’s the quote you referenced:
Let me ask you about something else that was in the Hunter Davies book. At one point it said you and Brian Epstein went off to Spain.
Yes. We didn’t have an affair though. Fuck knows what was said. I was pretty close to Brian. If somebody is going to manage me, I want to know them inside out. He told me he was a fag.
I hate the way Allen is attacked and Brian is made out to be an angel just because he’s dead. He wasn’t, you know, he was just a guy.
I read the entire interview. There’s nothing in there condemning being gay, or even really any commentary on sexuality. He says a slur a few times! In 1971! There’s also a huge chunk of the interview where he talks about supporting civil rights, which you’re not talking about for some reason.
Your comments makes it sound like he’s hand in hand with Reagan 10 years later, when it’s honestly less offensive than a lot of shit that’s been said this decade by politicians and Christians worldwide.
I doubt I can change your mind, since you seem pretty set on this point. But I’m curious: Elton John didn’t come out as gay until the 90s. If he was killed in 1980, would you be calling him a bigot too?
I’m not saying “oh, it was the 70s, fag meant something else” (even though that’s true - 60 years have gone by!). I’m saying that taking that comment out of context and labeling the guy as a bigot is some 2023 shit. Lennon was, by his own admission, bisexual - and it’s entirely possible that he actually hooked up with Epstein (and Elton John, later on).
I’m not defending the comment, to be clear. It’s quite nasty. But using that to label him as a homophobe/bigot is an absurd reach.
He was an asshole fwiw, and the domestic/child abuse is completely inexcusable. But for fucks sake, he was probably referring to hippies with that comment.
And honestly, it is important to view things in historical context. Being supportive of an quasi-openly gay person (and letting them manage your career!) when it was criminal takes balls, and that’s not something that should be erased because of one nasty quote.
Easy to throw stones in 2023. That seems horrid now, of course, but homosexuality was literally criminalized in the UK in the 60s - the same time period where they had a gay manager. Look into the sexual tension/love affair between Epstein (Brian, not Jeffrey) and Lennon. Dude was genuinely progressive for the times (over half a fucking century ago, y’all) and to shape that as bigotry is borderline misinformation.
Rag on him for beating his wife, not this silly shit
Edit: here’s some actual context about this notorious “bigot”. https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/john-lennon-the-beatles-song-defend-brian-esptein-sexuality/
You shouldn’t be so rude when you’re just dead wrong
I’ve enjoyed my experience on here a lot more after blocking them, lol. I felt like I saw a stupid argument on almost every post, and they were either always the culprit, or continued the argument well past the point of good faith.