In such a case, we would simply need to look backward in history until we find an ancestor that doesn't meet the chicken criteria. Fowl as a clade were separated from other bird clades before the K-T Extinction Event, and many such species before the event had teeth, which means they weren't chickens.
Spuddaccino
joined 1 year ago
I see what you're saying, and I agree with it, but the question isn't asking "Which egg was the first chicken egg?", it's asking "Did the egg come before the chicken?" Determining the exact point is a way of answering the question, but is a lot of work that isn't strictly necessary to do so.
We can use the Theorem because we don't care when that point actually was, the question doesn't ask that. We just need to prove that there was such a point, and the Theorem does that.
To use that text as an analogy, we don't care which is the first purple or blue word, we just know there is one because the gradient starts from red, passes through purple, and ends up blue, so it must have a first purple word and a first blue word.
chicken would also be able to defined as it’s ancestor
This isn't the case, and there's a mathematical theorem describing this called the Intermediate Value Theorem. Basically, if you have a function describing a line you can draw without picking up your pencil, at some point along that line the value takes on every value on that line. Makes sense, right?
If I draw a line separating Chicken-birds from Not-chicken-birds, and show the evolutionary path leading from non-chicken to chicken, at some point it crosses that line. We don't have to know where that point is, we just know it crosses the line at some point.
At that point, wherever it is, we have a bird that meets the criteria of "chicken" hatching from an egg laid by a bird that doesn't.
Besides, this is all pretty moot. We actually know when and where chickens originated. They originated about 3000 years ago in China and India after being domesticated from Southeast Asian Red Junglefowl.
The part between the corners of the image. It's white and has grey and green blobs on it. You can't miss it.
Same. Arizona's great with the flavors they have, but they don't have a peach tea, which is my go-to if I want iced tea.
From the other side: I'm pro-union, but at my workplace I'm management.
One of the guys on my crew is terrible at his job. Just awful. Everyone hates working with him, he doesn't get anything done on time, he's either stupid or willfully ignorant, the list goes on and on.
The union, however, has negotiated that I can't action for productivity. It literally doesn't matter how badly he does his job, as long as he's in his spot and something is happening, I can't do anything. On top of that, this guy has seniority over most of the other guys on the crew, so I can't even give him less hours without cutting the people who actually get shit done.
It's incredibly frustrating, and the only thing I can do is watch his attendance like a hawk in the hopes I can get rid of him for being late one too many times.
For union dues, I'll sometimes bring up strikes. People know that when unions strike, they aren't working, and when they aren't working, they aren't getting paid. What they don't realize is that most unions pay the employees during strikes, and that money has to come from somewhere.
Man in Black : All right. Where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right... and who is dead.
Vizzini : But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black : You've made your decision then?
Vizzini : Not remotely. Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
Man in Black : Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
Vizzini : Wait till I get going! Now, where was I?
Man in Black : Australia.
Vizzini : Yes, Australia. And you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black : You're just stalling now.
Vizzini : You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong, so you could've put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied, and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black : You're trying to trick me into giving away something. It won't work.
Vizzini : IT HAS WORKED! YOU'VE GIVEN EVERYTHING AWAY! I KNOW WHERE THE POISON IS!
Man in Black : Then make your choice.
Vizzini : I will, and I choose... what in the world can that be?
[Vizzini gestures up and away from the table. The Man in Black looks backwards. Vizzini swaps the goblets]
Man in Black : What? Where? I don't see anything.
Vizzini : Well, I- I could have sworn I saw something. But no matter.
[Vizzini tries to hold back laughter]
Man in Black : What's so funny?
Vizzini : I'll tell you in a minute. First, let's drink. Me from my glass, and you from yours.
[Vizzini and the Man in Black drink]
Man in Black : You guessed wrong.
Vizzini : You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - the most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...
This is a terrible position to take. Anyone can be educated.
The thing is, nobody likes being flat-out told they're wrong, and with the way arguments on the internet go, that's all that will ever happen.
Most of my friends are heavily conservative, but I've learned how to have productive conversations with them about issues, and it's almost always "This is how it benefits you if it were different."
It's difficult sometimes, but it's worth doing, and it's important to understand that the guy you're talking to isn't the enemy. He's just another dude.
The idea is, each number is expressed as a sum of n factorials, with n being the number of digits in the number post-conversion. You start with the highest factorial that you can subtract out of the original number and work your way down.
1 becomes 1, because 1 = 1!, so the new number says "1x(1)".
2 becomes 10, because 2 = 2!. The new number says "1x(2x1) + 0x(1)".
3 becomes 11, because it's 2 + 1. The new number says "1x(2x1) + 1x(1)".
21 becomes 311: 4! is 24, so that's too big, so we use 3!, which is 6. 3x6 = 18, so our number begins as 3XX.
That leaves 3 left over, which we know is 11. The new number says "3x(3x2x1) + 1x(2x1) + 1x(1)".
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No, we don't. It doesn't matter when that is, because you and I both agree that it's out there somewhere, and that at the point in time referenced, a non-chicken laid an egg and a chicken hatched out of it. That's all we need out of that point, and neither of us are disputing that part of it.
Agreed. I, personally, use the broader egg definition you reference in the last paragraph, but a definition of "chicken egg" would put the whole thing to rest, and I propose this: Not every chicken egg contains a viable chicken. We all agree that these eggs are still chicken eggs when we buy them at the supermarket, though, so my proposed definition is that a chicken egg is laid by a chicken. Otherwise, we end up with unclassified eggs in our omelettes, and we can't have that.