this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2025
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Privacy

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A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

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In an unexpected mask off "secure" email and VPN provider Proton took the stance of siding with the fascist MAGA Reps. Proton's services are no option for me and many others any longer. Let's collect and discuss alternatives (E2E encrypted email and VPN) here 🔐👇

Always try to provide:

-Server location (jurisdiction)

-Governance

-Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency

-User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8)

-Pricing and links

If you know alternative setups, feel free to share, too.

#ProtonExodus

Background: https://lemmy.ca/comment/13913116

Edit:typo

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 hours ago

I own and operate https://port87.com/, and in no way am I even close to right wing. I don’t call myself a liberal, and get offended when people do, because I’m a leftist.

It’s not ready for business email yet, but it’ll work for your personal email.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 39 minutes ago

Thanks for this post. Any alternatives for Drive specifically??

[–] [email protected] 56 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Truly unhinged that they decided to come out on this. Fellas, you are fucking Swiss why throw yourself under the bus for the US election

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

This is amazing. People were perfectly okay with ignoring all the red flags in Proton and their products and really okay with buying all their bullshit, then a tweet saying Trump comes up and that's it. lol

[–] MrRazamataz 5 points 1 hour ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 44 minutes ago

From what I recall, the red flags included stuff like giving the IP away of activists, having access to private keys while claiming e2e, and taking more info than they claim. I am busy atm, but i can find some links to sources when I get a chance.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 hour ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 hour ago

But also a big plus. I'm so conflicted.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 48 minutes ago

...that looks pretty modestly-sized in the foreground, honestly...

(this is a huge red flag:)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

What red flags?

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 hours ago

🤷 sometimes people grumble quietly until a final straw is added to the stack. Not surprising.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Sooo, can we not create and/or finance our own? Please be gentle…but…is there not enough of us paying for proton and other privacy apps to fund a floss or non-profit version? I mean there are tech nerds all over this place, along with law nerds and political nerds…etc..(meant with love btw) that would have an instant user base.

I pledge here to sub up to $15usd/month for any lemmy person that starts an entity that provides us with what we need with ethics and morality of lemmy common.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

You need a domain with enough reputation to not just get immediately flagged as spam, or sites outright refuse letting you use the email because they detect the domain as "invalid".

[–] [email protected] 3 points 52 minutes ago

If a car company in Germany complemented Hitler on his paintings, would it be still fine to buy their cars? And what if they were a really great car company and only mentioned how cool Hitler's paintings were and nothing else?

I sort of feel like if I am cool with Proton's statement, then I also am cool with trans people and Latino people and Gazan people being treated poorly, and I'm not actually cool with that.

It's unfortunate, because despite Proton not accepting XMR and logging IPs when they promised they wouldn't and doing other questionable practices, they have a lot of great services. But now, it's like if I'm using their services, I'm sort of spitting on the grave of every trans person who ended their life out of shame, spitting on the grave of every dead Gazan who simply didn't want to die, and being disrespectful to all the cool Latinos out there who have been degraded simply out of racism.

:-(

[–] [email protected] 38 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (3 children)

I will continue to use Proton and their services, not because I support or endorse any political decisions from the CEO/board members (and I don't), but because they provide open source, secure, and private software that I love.

This is no different than arguing about using GrapheneOS based on the behavior of the maintainers.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 hours ago

Damn it my two year subscription just got refreshed...

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

OK I think I will move to Posteo. Great security, privacy focussed, servers in Germany, running with 100% renewable energy. Prices are ok, too. Ticks all boxes.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Tweet is from early december. Why is it blowing up now?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 hours ago

I guess on the one hand people are anxious about Trumps inaugeration and on the other hand this is a great opportunity for competitors or otherwise opposed people to launch an astroturfing campaign off of it.

When looking at posts titled has gone "full MAGA" for saying they feel Trump is more likely to enact antitrust rules against big tech than Democrats who let them down the past years, is just absurd.

It is the same line of reasoning like claiming the WHO to have been a chinese asset because they supported some of Chinas anti-Covid measures.

[–] [email protected] 93 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (16 children)

Misinformation. OP is advocating that you shoot yourself in the foot.

The CEO said something silly on Twitter which revealed either that (a) he shares an exceedingly banal opinion with literally half of America or (b) he's not above a bit of preemptive sycophancy to advance his (positive) anti-trust agenda.

There's nothing particularly scandalous in the offending tweet:

  • Implying that the Democrats are now "the party of big business" is arguably true (and very boring)
  • Implying that the Republicans now "stand for the little guys" is dumb but also arguably true, unfortunately - the working classes swung to Trump in the recent election while the Democrats are fast becoming a party of high-earning elites (which is why they lost)
  • Saying that the antitrust actions began under Trump I is, well, true

Proton is not owned Zuck-like by its CEO. It's controlled by a foundation with other stakeholders on the board, including the inventor of the Web himself. In its niche it is still by far the best option. Ditching it for a nebulous non-existent alternative because the CEO expressed a dumb and extremely commonplace opinion is just silly and self-defeating.

PS: to be clear, OP is peddling misinformation because it's not true that "Proton took the stance" of anything. It's the personal opinion of the CEO that's at issue. It's a major distinction. I find it disappointing that people interested in privacy would have such little respect for a private individual's right to have their own thoughts.

PPS: to be extra clear, my comments are about the post above, not stuff that people are reading elsewhere. But the substance stands. See discussion for detail.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 hour ago

As a non-American I don't normally care about US politics or what "literally half of America" think but I am concerned with far-right politics spilling over in to my country. So I would naturally want to resist organisations aligning themselves with those politics, whether they are scandalous to Americans or not.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago

Implying that the Republicans now "stand for the little guys" is dumb but also arguably true

No, no it isn't arguably true. It's just flat out incorrect. 100% of people could vote for him or others like him out of fear of disappearing in the night if they don't. That doesn't make him or the party "for the little guy".

It doesn't matter that 51% of the country votes for the Republicans. The party has consistently shit all over "the little guy" and made him eat it for over 40 years, telling him he's eating shit and then said only the party can fix it.

All the while the party's been giving tax money to their friends and saying "don't worry, we're here now. you can feed him as much shit as you want. we'll find someone cleaning up shit and make the "little guy" think that person was making it instead. that way when you get caught doing it no one will believe it"

[–] [email protected] 107 points 7 hours ago (8 children)

I largely agree with what you’re saying, except the official Proton Mastadon account doubled down on that personal opinion. That seems pretty clear that it’s endorsed not just by that one individual on the board.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 6 hours ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

Archives in case they delete it:

https://web.archive.org/web/20250115165213/https://mastodon.social/@protonprivacy/113833073219145503

https://archive.is/lBQd8

Text copy of their post:


Corporate capture of Dems is real. In 2022, we campaigned extensively in the US for anti-trust legislation.

Two bills were ready, with bipartisan support. Chuck Schumer (who coincidently has two daughters working as big tech lobbyists) refused to bring the bills for a vote.

At a 2024 event covering antitrust remedies, out of all the invited senators, just a single one showed up - JD Vance.

By working on the front lines of many policy issues, we have seen the shift between Dems and Republicans over the past decade first hand.

Dems had a choice between the progressive wing (Bernie Sanders, etc), versus corporate Dems, but in the end money won and constituents lost.

Until corporate Dems are thrown out, the reality is that Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Looks like backing up the post was a good call.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Just puked a little after reading that.

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[–] [email protected] 59 points 6 hours ago (5 children)

I love how you’re claiming misinformation while posting misinformation. It’s not the CEO, it’s a board member. That said, the company also officially posted these ideas on their Bluesky account.

This isn’t a “CEO” expressing a belief, it’s the board, and now the official company line.

I’m not disagreeing with their post particularly on corporate dems, but this is a company and not a persons sole belief.

Also, if dems are the party of big business then why are all these big businesses donating to Trump? Does that just mean republicans are the party of even bigger business?

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (11 children)
  1. It isn't misinformation.

  2. Someone like this board member being a traitor to his species isn't covered by "opinion". No normalizing nazis. It's such a low bar. He couldn't clear it.

  3. He blasted his treachery over the public airwaves. His privacy isn't being violated.

This whole comment feels like an exercise in using all the best words to miss the point. We know, as does this probably-lying board member, that Republicans are only going to go more authoritarian, and the only reason they would pretend to care about big tech abuses is to grab the steering wheel from them to commit far worse abuses. No company that gets into bed with traitors is going to become the new center of my digital life.

Tuta for email, syncthing for photos bc I'm not self-hosting, mullvad for VPN.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Implying that the Democrats are now "the party of big business" is arguably true (and very boring)

While true in some scenarios, in anti-trust Lina khan's ftc has done significantly more than trump ever did. Biden keeping her over the protest of countless business execs and daily articles in the wall street journal on how she's ruining America shows some commitment to prosecuting big tech.

Meanwhile, trump's anti-trust moves were mostly based off petty issues he had with the ceos or the platforms having a "liberal bias". Now that every big tech ceo has fallen in line and given him $1 million for his inauguration I doubt we'll see much movement on that front.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago (3 children)

As a Brit, I'm not offended by the Proton CEO's post. I don't like Donald Trump BUT I do like that he has hired someone who should be tough on tech anti-trust moves. This is very important.

Americans can be obsessed with their electoral system, but the rest of us don't have to pretend to support the Democrats or Republicans. I don't necessarily agree with all of Andy Yen's take regarding the two parties, but I'm not offended enough by it to boycott Proton, certainly not based on one tweet. I can also see the pragmatic benefit to his position by massaging trumps well known fragile ego.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago

It isn't about politics so much as endorsing a party that is openly hostile towards Proton customers. LGBT people for example who paid for Proton explicitly for privacy protection against any upcoming persecution by the group he is praising.

With this endorsement there is the concern not only will they not protect these customers but will loudly align themselves against them and cause harm. It questions their ethics and business decisions as well to make such a major public relations mistake. Will they create a secret backdoor or anything else with their endorsement?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 hours ago

Hint: everything trump says is a lie. His new crony is NOT going to be "tough on big tech" as the toddler traitor says.

What he actually means is they're going to use the government to destroy our privacy and freedom of speech, whilst simultaneously stealing every red cent they can from our pockets.

You gotta read between the lies with that dipshit.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 hours ago

Was there any urge (as if you can be urged at all to bootlick a rightwing asshole) to make these statements? No. Yet he did it.

[–] [email protected] 126 points 8 hours ago (4 children)

Sigh.

Goddammit. I'm so fucking tired.

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