this post was submitted on 13 Feb 2024

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Apple’s iMessage is not a “core platform” in EU, so it can stay walled off (arstechnica.com)

submitted 9 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 50 points 8 months ago (2 children)

It's strange to me that the differences are so vast between different continents.

I know litteraly no one who actually uses iMessage. Never once (in recent years) seen some communicate through a channel that isn't WhatsApp, Signal or something similar. The whole "ew, green bubbles" drama just isn't a thing here. (Though the existence of iPhone users still harms society in different ways)

Though I do agree with many commenters that the EU caving to the lobbyists is a bad thing. Having the law only apply to "problems that are big enough to care about" is still a loss for the consumer in the end. I'm all for standardisation and free choice, which means any commercial messaging service should comply. Exceptions only for open source projects funded by non-profit organisations.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (2 children)

It's also funny that Apple phones are seen as an "old people" thing because they're for simpletons, let's be honest

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago

Apple's whole modern "it's reliable and just works" cult following exists because they found a fix for situations where the problem was between keyboard and chair.

Both Windows and Linux-based operating systems are plenty reliable if you actually know what you're doing and you know how things work. Apple started a culture where you don't need to know how things work because you have no influence over your own devices. Which lets people do the simple tasks without adressing the problem that your userbase will not amass any computing knowledge whatsoever.

And when Apple devices do fail (and trust me, they do), they fail catastrophically without a way to fix the problem yourself (which is by design).

The distinction is larger for computers than it is for mobile devices, but yeah in general Apple devices are for simpletons. But the biggest issue is that Apple's design philosophy actively creates these simpletons.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Oh cock off. My home network has seven windows machines and three Linux machines. I love iOS because I fuck around with computers all day, I’m not into fucking around with my phone. I want a secure device that lasts a long time, stays extremely fast, and requires no fucking. My five year old iPhone matches all of this perfectly.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

As an android owner, I am pretty sure I haven't fucked any of my phones.... Yet.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

I don’t use google products or services, so if I had an Android phone I’d have to fuck around with de-Googling and custom ROMs and all that, which I’m not willing to do.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Airdrop is the “blue bubble” thing where I am. When we’re traveling to poor signal areas (hiking, scuba diving, etc) the iPhone folks share the pictures they took with Airdrop. The Android folks just need to wait for it in whatsapp. And until recently, those pics in whatsapp are compressed to heck.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Android also has "airdrop". It's called "nearby share". Works weekly l exactly the same way so there's no need to WhatsApp it. You can share it right there with all android users.

Look on your phone settings. There's also going to be a nearby share quick toggle if you want to turn it on and off manually.

Also press "share" on a photo and nearby share will be an option. Press it and try it out and learn it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

I’m not saying the feature doesn’t exist. I’m just saying that is what happening around me. Even though our community doesn’t use imessage, Android is still the red haired stepchild.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It just means you are around more iphone folks than android. If roles were reversed, android users could share photos using nearby share, or even nfc which is at least a decade old by now, and neither is compatible with ios.

Why not use Bluetooth?

[–] [email protected] 42 points 8 months ago

It's funny to me that someone now has to say in an Apple boardroom every so often:

"So how do we make sure this isn't too successful in the EU?"

[–] [email protected] 23 points 8 months ago

I kinda understand it, because iMessage is completely irrelevant outside the US. It still sucks, bacuse more choice and less lock in is always better for consumers.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 9 months ago (4 children)

So the EU grew some balls and then lopped one off, how disappointing...

[–] [email protected] 82 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (8 children)

To be honest I don't know anyone in Europe using iMessages. We are using Viber, WhatsApp, Messenger, Signal, Telegram, Threema, etc. and none of those options are iOS or Android exclusive.

iMessage is a typical American thing which, we Europeans, have a really hard time comprehending what is the obsession with it.

And we also have a much bigger Android market share, so it would be stupid for iOS users to use some messaging app, that would be iOS exclusive.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

iMessage is a typical American thing which, we Europeans, have a really hard time comprehending what is the obsession with it.

To help you comprehend - the big difference is SMS has been free for a long long time in the USA. No other text messaging service has ever been able to get off the ground because why on earth would anyone sign up for Viber / WatsApp / Messenger / Signal / Telegram / Threema / etc, when you could just use SMS which works fine and works for everyone?

Then iMessage came along, and you could keep using "SMS", only now it's more reliable, has high resolution photos, delivery confirmation, etc. That was a real improvement over SMS, with no cost at all other than having to stay on the iPhone platform, which you were already on, and who's going to switch? You've got all these apps you found/like and who knows which ones work on Android?

Also, it's not just the USA. iMessage is big in other markets too. Also ones where SMS has historically been free. The cost of having to pay to send SMS between London/Paris is a pain we never really experienced here, so there was no motivation to try WhatsApp/etc.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago

Woah. What a great explanation. I legitimately never understood the deal with iMessage too and you made a logical explanation that clicks. Thank you.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 9 months ago

The US can’t even stop robocalls

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

I think it's some kind of flex they like about blue or green bubbles. Somehow they are just behind on tech in the common man's world. I remember when the world was on smartphon/cool gadgety phones pre first iphone, I was in America and most people still used black and white simple phones. They thought it was cool if some phone model had a few extra ringtones...

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[–] [email protected] 56 points 9 months ago (1 children)

NO one cares about iMessage here, legislate yourselves.

It doesn't have a big enough footprint to regulate it in such a way, it's entirely practical not to do anything.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

Damn. Good burn! I wish my legislators would do something good..

[–] [email protected] 30 points 9 months ago

The EU made a law this way specifically to only affect the biggest gatekeepers, so that megacorps can't use it to further entrench their own monopolies. Nobody gives a fuck about iMessage in the EU.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

iMessage really is just mostly used in the US, like Japan with Line. Most countries around the world don't use any SMS(or adjacent) services for chatting. So its not really a priority when people barely use it. Unlike the AppStore where every Apple user is forced to use it anyway

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The article says that Apple is still planning on making iMessage compatible with RCS, but isn't Apple's incentive gone if there's no longer any EU pressure? How likely is it that Apple will cancel their RCS plans?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

There's still plenty of EU pressure. This was a close enough thing that the EU spent months investigating it before making a decision.

That sends a pretty clear message to Apple "we're OK with what you're doing with messaging right now, but only just barely". If Apple does something the EU doesn't like, new legislation can be written.

There's also pressure in the USA and other countries where iMessage is far more widely used. The pressure hasn't gone anywhere yet, but it definitely could. The USA came down hard on Ma Bell when they dominated the phone industry. They're so dead most people have forgotten they existed. They were arguably the biggest company in the entire world at the time. Just like Apple is now.

Part of the order against Ma Bell was to order the company to stop selling phones. Imagine if the USA did that again, with Apple this time. I listened to an interview with an antitrust regulator in the USA yesterday (Decoder podcast)... he said they're short staffed and rely on punitive damages so harsh that other companies choose voluntary compliance, removing the need to actually regulate the whole industry (they don't have enough people to do that). Pretty scary stuff - the EU's approach is far gentler.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

“we’re OK with what you’re doing with messaging right now, but only just barely”. If Apple does something the EU doesn’t like, new legislation can be written.

Because of the "only just barely" part, new legislation might not even be necessary.
If Apple only narrowly avoided falling under the core platform definition, just a change in market share might be enough for that to change under the existing rules.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Can't apple do something good for a change and adopt Matrix?

[–] [email protected] 27 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

You joke, but Matrix has been working on protocol design specifically for the Digital Markets Act. If iMessage were to be ruled subject to the DMA, it might mean Apple having to interoperate with (a future version of) Matrix.

https://fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-3345-opening-up-communication-silos-with-matrix-2-0-and-the-eu-digital-markets-act/

(The DMA part of that talk starts at 25:00.)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I don't like Matrix, but that'd be an improvement.

(It supports bridging anyway, so one could use an XMPP-Matrix bridge and a Matrix-crapland bridge simultaneously)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

What's wrong with Matrix?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

From practice - performance of clients and of servers too.

From emotion - it uses Web technologies.

From some logic maybe - if they are doing something new, then why not distributed architecture like Tox (at least identities not tied to servers), and if they choose something architecturally similar to XMPP, why not use XMPP.

However, emotion again, I really like Matrix APIs, these are definitely designed to be used by anyone at all.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Oh no! Web based protocol! Not stability, ease of debugging, less block rate, and easy SSL protection! The horror!!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (9 children)

Not stability,

What does this even mean in the context of data you'd transfer in Matrix?

ease of debugging

Ease in which context? What's so much harder to which you are comparing it?

less block rate,

Are you certain that something TCP-based gives that? Latency sucks too.

and easy SSL protection

PKI is crap. Just saying. Easy and wrong.

The horror!!

Nobody said that.

And such an esteemed thing as Gnutella uses Web technologies.

I just don't like it. It's my opinion. Just as you have yours.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

YESSSS! Let's hope apple does have to adopt this, it would be so helpful when communicating with apple users

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Not going to happen. How do you think they became 2.000.000.000.000 + company? D finitely by not letting their customers off the hook.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

They might earn some respect from people who use android, and they might buy an iPhone

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

lmao

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Apple has announced they are adding RCS support.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

If RCS is such an awesome standard, why not mandate it for all EU phones? Apple already supports the current standard, which is SMS. The idea that they have to open up their proprietary software seems silly to me.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

The iMessage service did meet the definition of a "core platform," serving at least 45 million EU users monthly and being controlled by a firm with at least 75 billion euros in market capitalization.

But after "a thorough assessment of all arguments" during a five-month investigation, the Commission found that iMessage and Microsoft's Bing search, Edge browser, and ad platform "do not qualify as gatekeeper services."

While Apple has agreed to take up RCS, an upgraded form of carrier messaging with typing indicators and better image and video quality, it will not provide encryption for Android-to-iPhone SMS, nor remove the harsh green coloring that particularly resonates with younger users.

Apple is still obligated to comply with the Digital Markets Act's other implications on its iOS operating system, its App Store, and its Safari browser.

While it's unlikely to result in the same kind of action, Brendan Carr, a commissioner at the Federal Communications Commission, said at a conference yesterday that the FCC "has a role to play" in investigating whether Apple's blocking of the Beeper Mini app violated Part 14 rules regarding accessibility and usability.

The blocking and workarounds continued until Beeper announced that it was shifting its focus away from iMessage and back to being a multi-service chat app, minus one particular service.

The original article contains 589 words, the summary contains 214 words. Saved 64%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

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