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Single-Page Application (lemmy.ml)

submitted 9 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

HTMX enables arbitrary invocation of ANY api endpoint with cookies included, through html attributes, which inherently can’t be covered by Content Security Policy

I want you to please explain how HTMX bypasses the Content Security Policy connect-src directive, or any -src directive, for that matter, assuming it is specified (which it should be). Because I'm genuinely curious why the HTMX dev team would include a section on CSP in their docs if it did literally nothing, as you say.

Actually, as an even more basic question...you do know that HTMX is literally just an AJAX library, right? It doesn't actually "do" anything via HTML attributes. The additional HTMX attributes, like hx-get, hx-post, etc. just tells HTMX where and how to make the API requests. These requests are executed by the browser's native fetch or XMLHttpRequest APIs, depending on compatibility and implementation. Therefore, HTMX is subject to the same security constraints and policies as any other JavaScript-based operation that makes HTTP requests. Which also, by definition, means that it adheres to the Content Security Policy directives configured for that website.

In other words, an HTML button element with hx-get="https://www.some-endpoint.com/" on it would eventually translate into

const xhr = new XMLHttpRequest();
xhr.open("GET", "https://www.some-endpoint.com/");
xhr.send();

on click.

You do understand that, right?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Just to be clear, are you talking about some kind of templating library that literally transpiles all the htmx logic and instead packs it into individual ajax logic in js files "per element", such that you don't need to serve htmx client side and instead you pre-transpile all the ajax logic out to separate files?

Cause the very start of my statements was that if we had something like that then HTMX would be fine, as a templating lib that transpiled out to html+js.

That you can CSP lockdown, because now you no longer are able to invoke arbitrary logic with html attributes, only the explicitly transpiled ajax can and all concepts of htmx have been actually removed from the final html+js you actually serve to the client.

If that is what you are talking about above, then please link me because that sounds awesome and is what HTMX outta be, and would remove all of its security issues.

If that's not what you are talking about, and you truly dont understand the fact that you can't compare an html element that triggers logic (which you can't CSP block), to a script chunk that performs logic (which you can CSP block), then I think you do indeed need to go read up on and understand what the point if CSP is and why it was implemented in browsers.

The two are apples and oranges. HTML elements should not be capable of invoking logic arbitrarily, that violates a core principle of html.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Just to be clear, are you talking about some kind of templating library that literally transpiles all the htmx logic and instead packs it into individual ajax logic in js files “per element”, such that you don’t need to serve htmx client side and instead you pre-transpile all the ajax logic out to separate files?

My brother in Christ, what the fuck are you talking about "transpiling HTMX" and "serving HTMX client side?" You don't "serve" HTMX and there's nothing to "transpile into JavaScript." It is JavaScript. That's like saying you "serve React client side" and "transpile JavaScript into more JavaScript." Jesus, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Cause the very start of my statements was that if we had something like that then HTMX would be fine, as a templating lib that transpiled out to html+js.

Oh, okay, so you don't actually know what HTMX is or how it works, then? Because HTMX (https://htmx.org/) is a JavaScript library. Like, literally just a JavaScript library. It's like....4000 lines of JavaScript. In fact you can read the source code for it here: https://github.com/bigskysoftware/htmx/blob/master/src/htmx.js. For some...insane reason you seem to think HTMX is its own language. It's not. It's...just a JavaScript library. There is no other language called HTMX. There is no other mechanism or tool called HTMX. No implementation or protocol or ANYTHING else. It's just a small JavaScript library.

invoke arbitrary logic with html attributes

Once again, HTMX enhances HTML with various attributes declaratively. It utilizes custom data attributes in HTML (like hx-get, hx-post) to specify how elements on the page should behave - essentially, how and where to fetch data or submit forms without a full page reload. This is a form of declarative programming that tells the htmx.js library (which is just doing fucking AJAX) what to do when certain events occur (e.g., a click or a form submission). The actions (like the actual requesting of data from an endpoint) are performed by the code in htmx.js.

This is a fancy way of saying "if you stick an hx-get attribute on a button, then you can just say where you want a GET request to go to and what element you want updated with the HTML returned from it and htmx.js will parse that out on page load and set an event listener for the button click to know when to initiate an AJAX request to the defined endpoint." If you had an hx-get attribute in an element in a page and that page didn't have the htmx.js library loaded it would do literally nothing.

And, once again, HTMX, being a JavaScript library, operates under the same security constraints as any JavaScript executed in the browser. This means that:

HTMX's scripts themselves must be loaded from sources allowed by the script-src CSP directive.
Any dynamic requests to load content or submit data initiated by HTMX are subject to CSP's connect-src directive.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I see you don't understand what the word "if" means, and you also don't understand modern js practices.

That’s like saying you “serve React client side” and “transpile JavaScript into more JavaScript.” Jesus, I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

You don't serve react client side, any junior dev is familiar with transpiling framework code to produce their website. Yes, you 100% transpile react code before serving it, the fact you dont understand what I am talking about speaks volumes. It's clear this whole time I've been having a discussion with someone who doesn't even know the absolute bare minimum of day 1 front end dev. If you don't understand how literally normal and industry standard something as basic as transpiling js is, you have literally zero business spreading info about something far more serious as HTMX.

You are in zero way qualified to be recommending anyone expose their websites to the security nightmare that is HTMX, stop spreading misinfo, stop encouraging devs to do so.ething stupid, and go learn the basics of FE dev practices.

If you don't understand the tools of the trade, stop spreading terrible info about them online.

Everything you have written in this entire thread has made everyone who has read it stupider and you have actively made the internet a worse place. You are a prime example of the exact thing that is wrong with web devs nowadays.

Go back to the drawing board, you have a LOT to learn still it sounds like.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Oh, the lengths someone will go to to not admit they are wrong and don't know what they're talking about. You are so clearly incompetent and so aggressively ignorant about what you're even saying that I genuinely hope for your sake no one responsible for paying you ever learns how woefully stupid you are. You literally thought HTMX was its own language or server-side framework - I'm not sure which. It's genuinely funny how opinionated you are over something you just never bothered to even learn about in the first place. I don't think you're even sure which of those things you thought it was in the first place.

All you're doing is trying to save face here by putting words into my mouth. "React is transpiled into JavaScript!" Yes, obviously. That's why I said you don't serve React: you serve JavaScript, which React code becomes as its served to the end user. And HTMX already is JavaScript, which you would not transpile because you can't. Because, and I guess you didn't see the bolded letters in my previous comment: it's already a JavaScript library. And you also clearly don't understand how CSP is enforced within the browser, as I've literally proven that your "security concerns" for HTMX are only an issue if you have no idea how CSP even works or is controlled, or even how fucking HTTP requests work in the browser. Hell, I even provided links. Did you provide links? No. You didn't. You sat here and filled your diaper like the baby you are once I explained to you how HTMX actually works and you were just so. fucking. embarrassed. that you couldn't even imagine being a grownup and just admitting you've been talking out of your ass about something you don't understand. You just pivoted to insults because you don't have any real evidence to support your assertions: no explanation for how HTMX violates CSP, no demonstrable vulnerabilities, no real explanation for how this one client-side JavaScript library can bypass CSP when thousands of others can't. You can't even explain how you think HTMX does what it does, because you have no fucking clue. All you do have is your ignorance and impotent rage at someone proving, exhaustively, that you are desperately and pathetically out of your depth.

Honestly, I pray for your organization's sake you're just a very underqualified intern they're stuck with until they can kick you out at the end of semester and tell you to go pound sand and beg some dogshit tier company for a job as a scriptmonkey, because if they aren't, you're going to actively make everything you touch worse because you don't actually understand how any of it works and when someone tells you you're doing it wrong or have made mistakes you're just going to double down until you get made to sit in a corner and let a big boy fix it.