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Canada to announce all new cars must be zero emissions by 2035 (www.ctvnews.ca)

submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Canada to announce all new cars must be zero emissions by 2035::Canada expects to announce this week that all new cars will have to be zero emissions by 2035, a senior government source said, as Ottawa is set to unveil new regulations in the latest example of countries around the world pushing for electrification.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You got something to back that up? The last study I read (I think it was from Volvo comparing one of their EVs against the ICE version of the car) showed between 60 and 80 thousand miles (depending on the energy generation mix) was the tipping point where EVs became better.

And that was probably about 5 years ago, there's been a lot of significant development in EVs since then.

[+] [email protected] -12 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Well, please show me a trustworthy study of the difference between ICE and EV emissions per mile during their lifetime. The ones I've read always say "in their lifetime", but they don't take into account EV batteries need changing after about 10 years .... And batteries are as we know the "big bad" of EVs. The absolutely only true comparison would be all emissions from all sources spread out over either per mile or per year. A combustion car can easily last 20 years, which isn't really a fair comparison to the 10 years.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Hey you made the claim in the first place, you have the burden proof. Don't attempt to shift it.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This article, and everying about this subject, presumes EV is better than ICE. That's the positive claim.

Show me the math, the studies. If it holds true, this should be easy. And, it would end the debate.

Data trumps. If the research is so overwhelmingly in favor of EVs, let's publish that info everywhere for people to read, study, analyze. Lots easier to convince people with the information out there, warts and all.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

And, it would end the debate.

No, you'd hemm and haw and avoid the problem. We've been here before.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Well I claimed that I've not seen a study that accounts for all the different attributes at once. So there's really nothing for me to provide?

But if you really need it, MIT did a study in 2019 and they explicitly (in about 2 sentences) declare that they don't take into account battery lifetime, capacity degradation over time, battery efficiency's sensitivity to cold, the problem with disposing of depleted batteries. According to their study an EV has about 55% of the emissions of a traditional ICE of comparable size, not accounting for the aforementioned details, nor the fact that EVs replace batteries. I.e. they assume one set of batteries for the entire lifespan.

Now, I might very well be wrong. And I probably am (judging from the down vote bombing). But I just want to see a thorough study of both types of vehicles with everything taken into account from basically drawing board to junkyard.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

No, you claimed:

Production of batteries, handling discarded batteries, breaking of minerals FOR the batteries, and producing the electricity have all been shown to be worse for the environment than than the entire life of a traditional car

Furthermore, when asked about a source for these claims, you come out swinging with the ever popular “no, you” defense.

Again, link your sources (MIT study) please.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

https://energy.mit.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Insights-into-Future-Mobility.pdf

Edit: Another link on batteries https://earth.org/environmental-impact-of-battery-production/

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Great, it’s better if you link them where the claims were made though.

I hadn’t heard of earth.org so I looked them up: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/earth-org-bias/

Not too bad. Though I’m well versed in battery tech and industry, it’s an incredibly dirty industry, coming with cited, fair sources is paramount.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

Na mate, I asked first.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 months ago

Conventional ICE can last 30 years, with engine and trans rebuild, which is trivial from a materials standpoint.

We have multiple 30 year old ICE vehicles that still get 30mpg, have air conditioning and unlimited heat.

EV will never compete with that unless we find new ways to make batteries.