this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2023
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I did not take business classes so limited background but if we assume that the US isn’t going to magically transition away from capitalism, we instead have to find a way to legislate a transition to a more ethical capitalism. That phrase seems to be an oxymoron but for things to not keep getting progressively worse I’m thinking we as a society need to figure out a way to make it happen. Any ideas? You seem to have at least taken a course in the matter.
What if we transition away from capitalism non-magically?
I mean that’s probably the preferred path but I can’t see how that realistically happens. There are too many individuals globally with too much to lose that will think their loss of capital is worth bringing down the whole human race. I’m sure they would rather see the world in ashes rather than succeed under an alternate system where they may not be on top.
It’s not even about being on top or being worried about losing status - I’d be fine with giving up what little I have to see a better world. The problem is that a pivot away from capitalism isn’t going to happen without violent revolution, because it would absolutely be met with violent resistance.
I wouldn’t support something that would be guaranteed to thrust my children and grandchildren into a world of chaos, uncertainty, and tragedy that would unavoidably arise during and potentially after a revolution of that scale. And someone has to be holding the levers of power in the end, and how do we guarantee that we don’t just end up shuffling the deck around but playing the exact same game?
It’s easy to be idealistic and say “this isn’t working” but it’s a whole lot harder to convince enough people to dismantle it and deal with the consequences rather than attempt to effect incremental change over a long term.
I think there's a credible case to be made that moving toward socialism has benefits even for the wealthy, and that the change doesn't have to be presented as the end of capitalism.
No, let's not. Or at least let's change it to something better this time, not worse.
Why don't you take a list of countries by quality of life from some point in the past decade or two, and see which nations seem to always top it.
Spoiler: they're the ones with hybrid economies and highly regulated markets.
Yes, capitalist free-market countries almost exclusively. That's the thing I'd rather not have others break.
Do you not know what a "mixed economy" is? Did you even look at a list? Denmark, Norway, Sweden... You think these are "capitalist free-market countries"and that's why they top the list?
The reason those countries are at the top of the list for quality of life is because they have regulations on their markets, and robust social safety nets.
Maybe actually do a few minutes of honest, open minded research about quality of life.
Yes, they obviously are capitalist free-market economies.
Perhaps you should read something like https://www.amazon.com/Basic-Economics-Thomas-Sowell/dp/0465060730 before going on with this line of conversation? It should cover most of what you seem to be lacking.
For fuck sake. I will repeat my question:
Do you not know what a mixed economy is?
Because no, they are not purely "capitalist free market economies." At all.
Perhaps that bit isn't covered in the one book you've read?
The fuck does that even mean?? Assuming you're just too embarrassed to ask, I'll lay it out for you:
Those Scandinavian countries have mixed economies. The "mixed" in there is referring to a combination of market capitalism and socialism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_economy
The markets are highly regulated. Many services that are run by private enterprises in the "free market capitalism" that you're referring to (i.e. Laissez-faire) are instead nationalized, removing the profit motive from services that improve the lives of every citizen. They have very strong social safety nets and universal health care.
It's no coincidence that those nations consistently top those lists.
You know, there was an entire comment after that part that you just completely ignored. Wonder why.
The reason for that is probably not what you think it is.
Anyway, I got into insulting on this thread, which is not what I like to do -- even if it's responding to insults. I removed those comments, and I apologize for them.
No worries, I don't think I even saw them.