this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2023
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As to the rest- you're wrong. Sorry.
But the real reason this tech won't be very important is because it's a lot more complicated and expensive than a cheap ass cv joint and is minimally more efficient. I can buy both sides of my vehicle for like $80 and don't have to worry about em again for ages. I think this new hyundai stuff could be reliable, but it's going to be a lot more expensive.
Also, they look like they'd be noisy.
No u. Bam, same level argument right there. Are you going to explain why or just throw out contrarian comments?
Cost will not be a limiting factor. Just about every feature on a 2023 car already costs more than a 1993 car's version. Did adding a wheelspeed sensor, electronic 4-channel hydraulic brake actuator, and dedicated ecm programming cost too much to implement ABS? Did the complication of 40 sensors (100+ now) and a voodoo box of electronics cost too much to go efi instead of carbs? Did the price of disc brakes stop most cars from ditching rear drums? Did the cost of engineering and testing prevent manufacturers from implementing the following nearly-negligible aero improvements to eek out another 0.1% of fuel efficiency;
aero strakes into mirror shells (prius, escape)
relaminating roof spoilers into every hatchback/suv and even into every pickup bed
Vortex generators on the top surface of tail lights (sonata, chr)
Active grille shutters (fusion)
Full underbody trays
Chin spoilers (splitters) on just about every car to keep air out from underneath
Hood beak splitters to keep grille air off the canopy (Volvo, accord)
Short antennas/glass-embedded antennas to reduce antenna drag
Front fender outlet vents to create laminar flow over the wheels (f150 2015+)
No, it didn't.
And I'd be interested to hear why you think helical-cut gears will be "noisy". I'm guessing you don't know why reverse whines in certain cars but not the forward gears
Edit: also, seriously, go do some shopping. LSDs are on the decline. On top of never being common in the first place, manufacturers at removing to brake-based simulated LSD rather than discrete components. There are incredibly few Fwd cars that ever had LSDs and fwd obviously makes up the majority of North American sales. Even Miatas and Mustangs only get LSD with optional packages.
Yeah the amount of BS or confidently incorrect in tech articles about automotive engineering is crazy.
And while gear-sets are really efficient, adding 8 to each of the 4 wheels 32 total, in leu of 2-4 at each end of the car, plus 4 CVs (assuming it’s AWD) has to be close in efficiency. And as a DIY+ car restorer in New England. I wanna see how they seal this thing. And with steering wheels it’s either gonna have to swing the motor around or put the CV back in anyway.
NVH (noise vibration harshness) is also going to be a huge factor. That and cost and weight is why we don’t have gear driven camshafts except on a select few exotic motorcycle engines and F1 engines.
Helical gears are the cost effective way to reduce gear noise, but they impart axial loads which would be difficult to overcome in this hinged joint. Herringbone fears eliminate the axial load, but are much harder to make, unless you go with powdered metal sintering. Which I barely trust in a cordless drill, let alone a Kia.
Edit: And no accounting for wheel castor, or camber changes along the suspension travel (way more basic and important for handling than torque vectoring). This video is pure marketing wank.
Funny you mention motorcycles with gear-driven cams as being exotic. Generally correct, but I happen to own one of the cheapest out there: the Honda VFR. I sought out mine for being the last with the gears before going to a normal drive in 02. It's a glorious sound.
Anyway, that's true too, helical gear will need a beefy housing to resist that axial load. That's more weight. A pair of helicals fastened together could help bring down cost, probably, compared to herringbone, but that's added complexity. I can't claim the tech is marketing wank but the video absolutely is
Lol, what?
My RSX was made two decades ago in '03, so the newest that would be multiple decades old. It's also a Type-S, the sporty model. It's got an open diff.
My '93 Subaru Loyale, which is 3 decades old, has two open diffs, with a locking center diff. No limited slip.
My '04 (almost decades old) Crown Vic PI doesn't have an limited slip. It was an option on Interceptor that the city didn't opt for.
My '07 (not decades old) Volvo XC70 has no limited slip diffs. It uses the traction control to try to imitate them, but no actual limited slip differentials.
My partner's '07 (still not decades old) Kia Spectra5 has an open diff.
The only car in my fleet that has a limited slip is my '02 Subaru Legacy Outback, and it was an option that the person who bought it new opted for, and it's just the rear that's limited slip, the front is still an open diff. Apparently the limited slip isn't even that good either, you can still get stuck with two wheels spinning. I haven't tested that yet, I just got the car.
If you go out and buy most cars today they'll come with open differentials. The traction control system will likely try to compensate for this, but they do not have limited slip differentials.
Just how many cars do you have, exactly??
The RSX is on the chopping block. I want to get a more dedicated sports car, since I'm privelaged enough to own multiple vehicles.
The Outback and Volvo are wrecked title purchases from copart that I'll get salvage titles for, then enjoy for a bit before selling to break even, or even for a possible profit.
The crown vic is my beater. I drift it. I take it on logging roads. I take it on the Gambler 500. It's fucking awesome. I'll always have one, probably.
The Loyale is something I've wanted since highschool. I love the push button 4WD. I love how comically slow it is. I love the interior. I get quite a few compliments on it. It needs some work, but that's part of the fun. I dunno if I'll own it forever, but I really like the thing.
I, as of recently, own my grandpa's 1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royale. I've gotten similar compliments to the Loyale on it. My grandpa is about two weeks away from dying of cancer. I'll own that car forever.
My partner owned a Spectra5 when I met her. It's our economy car, which every household needs. I'd like to upgrade it to a Volt at some point.
I definitely own too many vehicles, but I love the variety and unique characteristics of each of them.
Sort of related, but I'm not one of those dickish gearheads, I use and support public transport, and think that the world as a whole would be better off with fewer cars. If one doesn't want to drive, then they shouldn't fucking have to.
Hey don't let me take your fun away from you. I just think it's an unusual amount of cars, but if you enjoy it then that's great! Sounds pretty cool tbh
Yea, companies love to tout their "electronic differential" that's nothing more than an open diff and traction control via the brakes (Toyota Tundra comes to mind, as recent as 2017).
Yeah. I guess the person I replied to fell for their marketing? However, even traction control wasn't terribly common 20 years ago. I'm not sure what they're on about.
It surprises the hell out of me that ABS wasn't even mandatory in the US until 2008 I think. Retro mustangs were available without it. I think we got mandatory tire pressure monitoring around the same time, actually, although it was done by comparing wheel speeds over time. So yeah, traction control wasn't all that common indeed. I think GM was still running 3-channel ABS on their trucks then too
Me too, it was super late. However, holy crap it's different in quality between manufacturers.
My RSX has great ABS, even on gravel or in the snow. It does way better than I could in most situations. Coming from my '98 corolla (without ABS) to the RSX was a massive improvement in braking.
The ABS on my Crown Vic, which is one year newer than my RSX, just doesn't work. You don't lock up the wheels, so I guess by the definition of ABS, it works. However, the ABS also increases your stopping distance by a lot. I need to figure out the best way to disable it. Pulling a fuse doesn't work, as that's also the fuse for the dash instruments. When I do it I'll do a test to make sure that the stopping distance is improved by as much as I think it will be.
That's interesting, so it is pulsing under heavy braking? Is that a common problem? I wonder if either unplugging all the sensors or maybe the module itself would disable it. Just the sensors might freak it out and cause constant abs actuation each startup until it confirms the fault.
Yeah, the ABS "works" as far as I can tell. The wheels don't lock up. It pulses. It's just way too generous towards not locking up the brakes, and doesn't pulse with a high enough frequency, from what I can tell. My vic is lifted for offroading, so it's a real issue stopping on gravel.
I'm thinking pulling a wheel speed sensor would be the easiest, but I haven't looked into it yet.
Might have to pull all 4 or else it'll be 3-wheel braking for the first few miles. I assume the wheels are all the same size? Are the abs wires stained at all with the lift? Might be worth watching them all with a monitor to see if any are acting up. I think Forscan is available directly from their website. It's a pirated copy of Ford's IDS, basically, and I know it was recently pulled from the Google store. It works for ios and windows too and can be connected by usb or bluetooth/wifi obdii dongle.
In the RSX one came lose, and it disabled the entire system, so that's how I assumed it worked in the vic as well, but I guess I'm not sure.
All wires are sustained from when I bought the vehicle, some could've been compromised previously.
I have an OBDII BT scanner, I might check out Forscan, thanks!